That stoopid knife question

Ok I am severely tempted to get into a Bark River knife. I know this is a pretty dumb question but I keep circling the airport. What would be a good first BRK knife?

Style:
I am currently attracted to Canadian LT, Classic Drop Point, Gunny Hunter. Not in that order necessarily. The Fox River is also awesome but I'm thinking maybe 4 inches or slightly under rather than slightly over. Is that sensible? Or is 4.25" Fox River the way to go? I like the angle of attack of the Fox River, I like the goofy unconventionality of the Canadian, I like the classic Loveless lines of the Drop Point and I like the all rounder elegance of the Gunny Hunter.

Steel:
As for steel - well A2 is ok, right? Is Elmax or 3V very hard to sharpen? I've got reasonable skills with a stone by now, and I'm not afraid of a learning curve but all my knives up to now (Svord peasant, a Kershaw folder from the 80s with a 4mm thick blade, a Spyderco Delica 4 in VG 10, a Mora Companion which is the one which actually comes with me, an Opinel, a Mercator, etc ) are not hard-to-sharpen super steels. But I have just acquired a couple of stones which should be able to handle the harder steels, ie Shapton glass. But should a first BRK be A2 or Elmax? Cru Wear? 3V?

And is Bark River even worth it? Would I be better going for the Enzo Trapper in Elmax?

ahhhhhgh
Will

Why not use your delica4? Used mine on a yearling white tail last week and didn't have a problem :thumbsup:

Nice bright orange handle so I can find it when I drop it

@Tahr

I’ve had a few bark rivers including a fox river and a gunny hunter. Just the gunny hunter left now, like the blade shape over the fox river.

I liked them all. I have big hands and didn't fit a Fox River. I did like the blade shape and the way it cuts.
I now have a Loveless Drop Point Hunter and Gunny Hunter. I've also had a Gunny.
All my knives are 3V and its great steel.
I don't know enough about Elmax but I like the idea.
S35Vn would have to have been the easiest steel to deal with. Held a good edge, was easy to sharpen and was rust free. For someone who can sharpen a knife OK I would pick this steel.
3V can be tough to sharpen and needs to be maintained a bit more regularly. It does chip a bit easier I found. Damn deer falling into scree slips.
Favourite knife so far has to be the Loveless.

I have 12 different Fox River models. I don't have the Canadian LT, or the Classic Drop Point so cannot comment on them.

In my experience, if you can only have one knife, the best all round hunting knife for field dressing is the Fox River. They do a couple of variants.
The standard Fox in 3V steel is 8.25" long, 4.25" blade which is 4.32mm thick. By typical NZ knife standards this is a very thick blade and in my opinion an overkill.
The Fox LT is a light weight version of exactly the same proportions as the standard, but with slightly thinner steel at 3.8mm. This would be my pick for your first knife. They are available in Elmax steel.
If you are used to slightly larger knives, the Fox River II LT is a great option too at 9.85" overall, 5.2" blade in 3.73mm thick 3V steel. Its a recent addition for me and I like it. That said, for skinning out an animal, don't overlook a smaller blade like the Woodland Special. Amazingly good blade, and although I have never used one, I suspect the Classic Drop Point would be a great small blade as well at 3.77".

A2 is a good tough steel and there is noting wrong with it, and its definitely cheaper than the super steels (therefore you are one step closer to a second knife if money is an issue). Like all things, if you want the best, then the best is not A2 for a meat processing blade, but will still get the job done. If you are used to steeling or stropping your knife during the processing of an animal you will be 'good to go' with A2. 3V will get you through a couple of animals before it needs attention provided you are careful.

When I hunt, I tend to take two knives, one for skinning and one for boning. Its the skinning that dulls the edge so this keeps one knife razor sharp for meat processing.

My recommendation, Fox River (seriously look at the LT), then add a Scandi or Blackwater II (on sale at DLT at the moment) as a dedicated boning knife. I have yet to try my new Blackwater II out on an animal but it feels great in the hand.
Note, the Fox and the Gunny Hunter are essentially the same blade shape and length (well mine are), but the angle of the handle on the Fox means that it rides with me 95% of the time, while the Gunny stays home. If it wasn't for the fact that the Gunny has such a stunning wild sheep horn handle I would probably sell it.
I have read feedback from other users that the Canadian Special can cause hot spots on your hand based on the handle shape??

Obviously check out your prices, and DLT is a great place to start.
If you decide to go for the cheaper option of A2, check out this seller on ebay. Great deals from eCop Police Supply | eBay stores
I have purchased non-knife items from them and they offer great service and fair shipping rates.

Thanks guys that really helps me a lot. So much good advice. I will check out the Fox LT. And 223 I always take the Delica but I just use it for food prep and such. Great as a light back up. Hot Barrels thanks for that steel info too. Gives me a handle on it.

But kiwijames I have big hands too so handle size is a consideration

These are worth a look. Hyken Knives - Lite Hunter - DLT Trading
They are made by Bark River.
CPM154 is a very good stainless steel and Bark River have all but stopped using S35VN in preference for it. It holds an edge longer than A2 and is no more difficult to sharpen. Easier to sharpen than 3V.

If you buy a BR its best to also get a strop and black (course) and green(fine) compound at the same time. The knives have a convex edge profile which you strop rather than put on a stone. There are plenty of youtube vids on strapping convex edges. Its a crime to grind away their edge with stones unless you are fixing a chip.

If you want to go for the best edge holding then Elmax is the way to go.

3V has a good balance of toughness and edge holding.
4v and Cru-wear are better still, but more difficult to sharpen.

Nothing wrong with A2 though. It will last for about one complete deer without touching the edge.
cpm154 and 3V will do a couple, 4v and cru-wear several and Elmax more still.

Once you master sharpening them on a strop you will find that you will want to try the better steels.

All of the knives mentioned in this thread are good. It comes down to personal preference.

I've processed more than 100 deer with BR knives. They are great.

Another very similar brand and equally as good are Cross knives.

Brilliant thanks! I’ve watched pretty much all of Virtuovices vids and recently saw some good stuff by Apostle P on convex sharpening - he has a setup with wet and dry on a leather backing and uses a stropping motion - if anything more than a leather strop is needed. That would be another part of the learning curve for me, handling a convex edge. I’m not so keen on Virtuovices aggressive reprofiling although it seems to work for him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WillB

Brilliant thanks! I’ve watched pretty much all of Virtuovices vids and recently saw some good stuff by Apostle P on convex sharpening - he has a setup with wet and dry on a leather backing and uses a stropping motion - if anything more than a leather strop is needed. That would be another part of the learning curve for me, handling a convex edge. I’m not so keen on Virtuovices aggressive reprofiling although it seems to work for him.

---

Wako (Virtuovice) is a bit of a friend of mine and we swap knives a bit. He does make his edges very thin and that can affect their stability although I haven't had his chip.
I use wet and dry for touch up jobs and sometimes to thin edges and it works well.

Virtuovice really got me started with knife sharpening. Wonderful videos and such a lovely personality. He hasn’t been doing so much posting lately tho eh? Watching him break down a deer is an education all by itself. You can really see the medical training!

Hah, just watched all Virtuos vids yest today, super Info!

This is a BR Ultra Light Hunter 11 and its an excellent light belt knife. Weighs 3.5oz. 4" blade and roomy enough handle.

Made of A2 and its hardened a bit higher (60rc) which gives it a bit of extra edge holding. Highly recommended.

Attachment 79077

Ah ha I was looking at those. They look a really good size weight and shape. Good price too.

Come on you lot lol, who says that a fancy expensive knife is needed to slice up the veny for gods sake.
Apart from spending unnecessary amounts of dollars your only filling up the pockets of the dude behind the counter at the end of the day.
There are those who for some reason or another collect fancy knifes and unless that person tries out his collection on dead animals then they simply have a fetish lol. I'm not getting a dig into anyone in particular here but if anyone wants ti make excuses then that's fine lol.
I may be slightly different than many...having just one shooter and one sharp knife and oh yea I have a smallish pocket knife for back up.
Those three work hand in hand just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doinit

Come on you lot lol, who says that a fancy expensive knife is needed to slice up the veny for gods sake.
Apart from spending unnecessary amounts of dollars your only filling up the pockets of the dude behind the counter at the end of the day.
There are those who for some reason or another collect fancy knifes and unless that person tries out his collection on dead animals then they simply have a fetish lol. I'm not getting a dig into anyone in particular here but if anyone wants ti make excuses then that's fine lol.
I may be slightly different than many...having just one shooter and one sharp knife and oh yea I have a smallish pocket knife for back up.
Those three work hand in hand just fine.

---

You are right, of course, however I have two BR’s here that I’ll let go for cheap...[emoji485]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doinit

Come on you lot lol, who says that a fancy expensive knife is needed to slice up the veny for gods sake.
Apart from spending unnecessary amounts of dollars your only filling up the pockets of the dude behind the counter at the end of the day.
There are those who for some reason or another collect fancy knifes and unless that person tries out his collection on dead animals then they simply have a fetish lol. I'm not getting a dig into anyone in particular here but if anyone wants ti make excuses then that's fine lol.
I may be slightly different than many...having just one shooter and one sharp knife and oh yea I have a smallish pocket knife for back up.
Those three work hand in hand just fine.

---

Meh. I like knives. So do a few others here it appears. It’s a primal thing I think.
Still, I won’t buy a knife that does not fulfil a few basic requirements, with all of those revolving around being a functional tool.
If it’s good looking, or has some other special trait it’s sweet as in my book and like most things in life quality has a price.
$200 in a knife is a spit in the ocean compared to many other hunting expenses. Better than dropping all your tin on a stupid car, or down your neck at the boozer too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doinit

Come on you lot lol, who says that a fancy expensive knife is needed to slice up the veny for gods sake.
Apart from spending unnecessary amounts of dollars your only filling up the pockets of the dude behind the counter at the end of the day.
There are those who for some reason or another collect fancy knifes and unless that person tries out his collection on dead animals then they simply have a fetish lol. I'm not getting a dig into anyone in particular here but if anyone wants ti make excuses then that's fine lol.
I may be slightly different than many...having just one shooter and one sharp knife and oh yea I have a smallish pocket knife for back up.
Those three work hand in hand just fine.
And yeah and mine's bigger than yours ha,ha.

---

No one is saying that a "fancy expensive knife" is needed. And most would agree that a Mercator or Green River type can do the job quite adequately. In the past they did for me, no problem.

Its likely though that while I have probably used what you use hundreds of times, you have never used what I use now. Accordingly, this leaves me better placed than you to judge the merits of a decent knife and to have an opinion. :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

No one is saying that a "fancy expensive knife" is needed.

Its likely though that while I have probably used what you use hundreds of times, you have never used what I use now. :thumbsup:

---

Touchy, touchy now don't get your ol knickers in a twist. Some chaps like all the boys toys and some cant see any point what so ever.
Funny but I somehow knew that you would come riding over the crest of the hill with knifes in hand lol.
I would not want to use what you use now old chap,god only knows why you used that line but anyway all is good on the Western front.
I might just take a short cut outa here with the one knife I have eh lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by doinit

Touchy, touchy now don't get your ol knickers in a twist. Some chaps like all the boys toys and some cant see any point what so ever.
Funny but I somehow knew that you would come riding over the crest of the hill with knifes in hand lol.
I would not want to use what you use now old chap,god only knows why you used that line but anyway all is good on the Western front.
I might just take a short cut outa here with the one knife I have eh lol

---

It was tongue in cheek. And I don't wear knickers. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tahr

It was tongue in cheek. And I don't wear knickers. :)

---

Going Commando these days?

This Guy is ok, small selection but shipping can be very reasonable,
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Fixed-Blade...ssn=knifeguy78

So what's up with these Brous Blades knives
$650-710.NZD
Seems................. extravagant

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jakewire

So what's up with these Brous Blades knives
$650-710.NZD
Seems................. extravagant

---

Was looking up Damascus the other day $600+ for a little boker folder :wtfsmilie:

You have to watch your so called super steels, the heat treatment is more important than the steel, people have been using carbon steel for hundreds of years for a reason, if you look after it it won’t rust, it’s easier to sharpen, with its good carbide alignment it will get a finer edge than a stainless steel, and is far less likely to chip if you hit a bit of bone or stone.

Stainless is just that less, not immune, I have seen stainless rust just like any other, will carbon steel taint the meat? Rubbish, blood has iron in it, a lead bullet probability taints the meat more than a carbon knife...

So saying if you aren’t into maintaining your equipment then carbon steel, in NZ conditions, may not be the best option.
Shelley

Plain carbon steels have been used for hundreds of years because the cpm process didn't exist. And the likes of 1095 and O1 are certainly adequate for hunting.

CPM 3v, 4v and Cru-wear are still carbon tool steels but they are made through a a compressed particle process. They are not necessarily hardened to a higher rc than traditional carbon steel, but they are more difficult to sharpen. The plus for the cpm steels (including stainless) is that the edge will last from twice to many times longer than O1 etc.

CPM stainless is very fine grained and will take an amazing edge. So too will the Bohler range of "N" stainless steels - Boker and Enzo use them. Enzo are excellent knives and good value except in D2 which I find to be a really chippy steel.

The stock Bark River steel is A2 which is not a cpm steel nor is it stainless, but it will outlast 1095/O1 2 fold and is no more difficult to sharpen. It will not rust like O1 etc, but it will blemish and stain - and rust if abused. You can use a fine sharpening steel on A2 (like we do with green river) to straighten the edge if you want but you wouldn't need to until after gutting and boning a whole deer. A couple of licks and you are ready for the next one.

I think that knife makers use O1 and 1095 because its easy to work with and to temper, not because its the "best" knife steel. They are good value though, and do the job. I have a Bark River in 1095 (it was a one off special run) and its a good knife, but not a patch on even A2.

Informative explanation Tahr on steels, thanks.

Yes thanks very much. I think that ultra light hunter looks brilliant and 3mm seems plenty thick enough to me. When blades get to 4mm is that a hunting thing or are trying to make it good for bushcrafting as well? The Mora at 2mm seems entirely adequate to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WillB

Yes thanks very much. I think that ultra light hunter looks brilliant and 3mm seems plenty thick enough to me. When blades get to 4mm is that a hunting thing or are trying to make it good for bushcrafting as well? The Mora at 2mm seems entirely adequate to me.

---

The ultra light hunter is very good and thin enough without being fragile. Knife makers make their knives thicker because they plan for the roughest users and abusers. Mine is a Ultra Light Hunter 11. The ULH1 version is probably a bit too short.

In the States they chop and hack wood and stuff all year round and hunt for a very short period, so the knives are inclined to reflect that in their thickness.

Cheers

We make thicker blades to withstand stress, ill stand behind my knives and if you break it in normal use I will fix or replace it replace it, my thicker knives will handle wood processing as well as hunting applications.

A bit simplistic, crucible steels powder their material and then bind them idea is to remove voids in the process of formation, a lot of early 154 steel suffererd from voids but the com stuff does not.
Stainless steels must contain at least 13% chromium, chromium is the hardest metal known, add chromium you add hardness to your metal (not Rockwell), but to get a good edge you need small secondary carbides, chromium interferes with this a little x like putting sheep and goats into the same paddock, they tend to seperate out, the sheep is the iron, the chromium is the goats and the paddock is the blade, because of this seperate one in the piece of crystal steel, which occurs in the heat treatment process (especially the cooling), the stainless has pro carbide formation but is still hard (hard to sharpen, hard to wear and will chip as there are big carbides which get knocked off the edge).

D2, if heat treated properly, is fantastic, look at Bob Dozier Knives , heat reatment is key.

Don’t mistake tool steel with 10xx! In the test I have seen O1 outperforms most edges in edge retention when chopping cardboard, but I have not tested it myself, or made the knifes, just read the results, not a massive amount of steels either.

Remember a tool steel is made for cutting, often metal, with maximum efficiency and minimum wear, it’s a matter of economics, that translates into a good metal for cutting meat.

And yes, O1 is easy to shape when it’s annealed, that does not make it a bad knife steel.

Shelley