Printable View
There is no more hassle to importing 20G steel, as there is 12G steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
Those of us who are prepared to adapt, will do some research, buy a few boxes of different ammo, pattern it and familiarise themselves with it. They will practise with cheap 20G steel clay loads to learn the differences in lead required and just get on with it.
I may be doing just that providing i can get hold of some except for the clays practice as steel shot is banned on all NZCTA grounds (safety issues) as far as I am aware.Quote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
Shooting clay's with mate in a paddock with a single trap does not constitute practice in my book
public or private gq club names if you don't mindQuote:
The last two duck shooting 'eye-opener' shoots I attended had no issue with us using steel atleast.
oh yea chamber adapters for smaller subgauges oopsQuote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
stop being a dick gq if you wanted to start your familiarisation tomorrow you couldn't and to try and bullshit up ''your gonna have lots of choice'' is laughable.
there.l be no such thing as cheap 20 gauge steel
oh ok so they don't have to order it 6 months or more ahead.Quote:
There is no more hassle to importing 20G steel, as there is 12G steel.
it don't get flown cos its a dg so by boats your only option and even then it don't always go when its supposed to .
cos of only so many dg classifacations allowed or limited room for some classifacations.
you can get it sent from and to anywhere in the country anytime by any carrier sweet??
wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn.:D
Yup, that's the one Mike. I've noted several clay-shooting grounds renewing their Resource Consents or getting them for the first time are being required to use steel, so presumably they're not NZCTA affiliated. The last two duck shooting 'eye-opener' shoots I attended had no issue with us using steel atleast.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
One thing we won't be able to avoid unfortunately, is the use of plastic wads in all the steel clay-shooting loads we use. But atleast the photo-biodegradable options are available. They do still look unsightly until they've disappeared though.
By my recollection, 20G and 12G steel target loads have been available in NZ since late 2010. At about $120/slab I didn't think it was too expensive?
Have used it at both private and public clay-shoots, with no issue after explaining what it was.
Happy enough to use it on pigeons also.....430 picked up after a mornings shoot, both 12G and 20G steel 7's.
hahaha Looks like I've shot my last opening, but frankly I couldn't give a shit. Duck numbers have been dropping down here for years INCLUDING southland. Ponds etc that used to shoot very well were a total write off this opening in the heart of southland :D So southland f&g should pull their fucking collective heads out of their arses and wake up.
It's more like duckshooters are the sacrificial lambs so they can get more for fishers. Just saying...
If the cock smokers at f&g think I'm not going to kill rabbits around waterways with lead they are sadly mistaken. If they even set foot on a property I'm working they will be charged under the H&S act.
were they paying for the pleasureQuote:
Happy enough to use it on pigeons also.....430 picked up after a mornings shoot, both 12G and 20G steel 7's
yes but I bet you get the clay stuff via guy as he imports shitloads .Quote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
does he have any plans to add waterfowl loads to the mix??
so just to be clear you used it to shoot skeet and down the line sporting with no problems??Quote:
Have used it at both private and public clay-shoots, with no issue after explaining what it was.
no telling you to bugger off cos it richochets of the clay houses??
the maimai supplies the other main importer of nsi ammo shows no 20 gauge steel??trap or huntingQuote:
3" Steel Magnum Waterfowl 35gram Steel 2 3/4" 35 gram FPS1350 Steel 2 3/4" 32 gram FPS1450 3" Steel Magnum Waterfowl 35gram Steel 2 3/4" 35 gram FPS1350 Steel 2 3/4" 32 gram FPS1450 $145.00 $129.00 $125.00 ___________________________ Sign Up! Click here to sign up to receive our newsletters and specials by email
don't forget there is a multi case minimum order to same as there would be to import it think the hull man 3500 rounds.Quote:
We are able to ship items using Mainfreight and Toll to your nearest main centre.
Before we can ship any ammo, rifles or shotguns we do require you to complete the Police Mail Order Form that can be obtained from any Police Station or downloaded from our site. This needs to be completed at the Police Station and the Police Officer will then scan the form direct to us once it has been verified.
Freight varies from area to area so contact us to get the most up to date freight price to your area.
You really do make a lot of assumptions kwb. Why direct import and just piss off the local importer? The 20G Gamebore Supersteel (or name something like that) was available from Kilwell. B&P stuff from ammo-NZ, and NSI from Maimai Supplies.
Simulated and sporting clays. They don't use Trap or Skeet fields.
I get that you're desperate to make the whole steel 20G thing as arduous as possible and make out the somehow F&G have got it in for you or some shit. But really kwb, you're gonna need to pull your head out of your own arse long enough to get a glimpse of the reality that is currently in front of you. Either adapt and enjoy your sport, or keep ahold of your old ways and get left behind. The choice really is yours.
While I would agree with your sentiments regarding steel, here is the direct quote from the rules of nzcta ( http://www.nzclaytarget.org.nz/cmafi...20book%202.pdfso no steel on their grounds for practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
To be fair I have never found any sub guage non toxic available here locally in my region nor were any sotres very helpful. I would like to try it if only I could get it. I'm only a casual duckshooter so would not be buying more than 2-3 boxes a year unlike for clays ammo which would be 2 slabs a monthQuote:
4-13
Cartridges.
a)
Before shooting the length of the cartridge
must not exceed standard specifications of
70mm.
b)
Shot loads must not exceed 28 grams. A loading tolerance of 0.5 grams will be permitted.
c)
Pellets must be only spherical in shape, made
of lead or lead alloy, and not larger than
2.5mm for DTL, Skeet and Sporting events.
Shot may be plated.
d)
Black powder, tracer, incendiary or other specialty type cartridges and steel shot are prohibited
Yup, the NZCTA regs mean you've got to seek out alternative grounds. I've never had a problem finding such up here, a mix of private and public membership associations.
your so fulla shit gq your eyes are brown,Quote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
killwell lists no 20 gauge steel nor does nz ammo co or ammo nz or tom dick and fuckin harry incorporated.
the only place your using steel clay loads is setups like treetops guys [where you undoubtabley get yours from]or practise shoots at those type of setups
I,l have no choice but to adapt but just cos you used to be something in F&g don't try and make out its for our own good and it,l be easy .
Just to clear up a few things for the likes of KWB. There are no minimums required for the importers as far as what their suppliers will provide. I enquired when we were debating this down here originally. In terms of their ordering most will be putting in orders for next season before the end of this season. There'll likely be more choice next season as a result of the rules being indicated now. There is time and if the market demand is there there'll be a supply. One of the big distributors, not a shop, said he'd bring in even one case if I wanted, I just had to do it through a shop on their order so they weren't seen to be cutting out their client. I've personally used Gamebore and Winchester steel in a sub gauge and found it to be fine. You can also find me on Facebook shooting geese with an ounce load of steel 7s! As a result I won't be selling my 20 gauge.
This bullocks about needing to practice with steel on an NZCTA ground is even more crap. The only possible difference between lead and steel when it comes to getting your eye in is velocity. All you need is a lead load doing similar to the steel load you use. Even then though its mostly in your head. I shoot AA grade in skeet and sporting with lead doing 1200fps. My hunting steel load is doing 1450fps and I can't tell any real difference switching between game and clays. It might be 6 inches difference in lead, within a pattern thats a couple of feet wide. Hunters who switch between lead and steel now when they shoot over land don't seem to have many problems. The only difference is that birds decoying well are miles slower than clay targets and you actually need less lead. You can't learn that on clays, especially DTL or skeet with driven targets. That comes from time in the field and choosing your shots. Learn to hunt, learn to shoot and move on.
MM HOW MUCH PRE ORDERING IS THAT 12 MONTHS THAT DONT HAPPEN ACCORDING TO GQQuote:
In terms of their ordering most will be putting in orders for next season before the end of this season
SWEET MIKE WHATS YOU SUPPLIERS NAME AND CONTACT DETAILS I,L GIVE HIM A YELL.Quote:
One of the big distributors, not a shop, said he'd bring in even one case if I wanted]
IM SURE HE WONT MIND SHIPPING FROM SOUTHLAND CAN I USE SOUTHLAND F&G AS A REFERENCE:D
just as well a cos you cantQuote:
This bullocks about needing to practice with steel on an NZCTA ground is even more crap
so practise makes perfect is conditional to :yaeh am not durnk:
so barry fosters the hull agent iN Christchurch is a liar is he ??Quote:
]There are no minimums required for the importers as far as what their suppliers will provide. I enquired when we were debating this down here originally. In terms of their ordering most will be putting in orders for next season before the end of this season. There'll likely be more choice next season as a result of the rules being indicated now. There is time and if the market demand is there there'll be a supply. One of the big distributors, not a shop, said he'd bring in even one case if I wanted,
hunting and fishing to ??
their exact words we have no plans to import 20 gauge steel nor have we imported any .
the ad in the magazine was a mistake [3 inch blackcloud]
whose next on the fizzhog fan club network paul??or guy.
we had a 5 season phase in for the larger gauges and that took 3 years to get decent ammo 5 years by the time we figured out the so called experts were full of shit even tho they claimed to have used it extencively thru their sponsors and the bigger shot sizes were best.
so 7 years on we finally got somewhere with it,
I don't expect the subgauge story to go any better?
those with 16,s and 28,s can forget any steel and any non toxic you will be able to get will be subject to massive prices and minimum orders.
IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME BUT FIND GQ/MIKE/F&G BELIEVABLE JUST TRY YOUR LOCAL SUPPLIER YOURSELF.
LET ME KNOW HOW YOU GET ON.
because your so diligent f&g mike and gq I bet you,ve spoken to target products and asked them to load or think about loading subgauge steel huh.
adding it to their falcon line or importing fiocchi subgauge steel no .
cos they don't plan to either.
Switch to depleted uranium, its much heavier than lead and because its not lead it must be safe.
I think kwb used it as a young fella before switching to lead.
and indent orders for ammo are completed at the end of the season, and all suppliers have plenty of time to get the first few pallets in time for next season.....and i'm sure i read it correctly that it is to be phased in over a few years anyway ??????
very good kawhia :yaeh am not durnk:Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
the cost and availability between du and subgauge non toxic will be about the same.
still waiting on that saint of a suppliers details mike MIKE you there mike
I'm not even going to give KWB the decency of a complete response until I can interpret his diatribe. He must spend a lot of time hacking up people's responses into separate quotes.
As for Hull, they're a small player here so there may be restrictions on them. One of the suppliers I've talked to actually supplies H & F, another one, one of my good friends works for as a rep, can't get a much better source than that. As to naming them I'm not going to just so he can go annoy the shit out of them. Time will show me to be correct and arguing with a nobody on here won't achieve much.
I can understand Target Products not getting into the market. Its going to be a smaller market than it is now as most of the sub gauge guys are just going to go back to a 12 gauge. Then again you probably wouldn't have bet on them making steel target ammo but yet they do.
There are way more reasons to use a sub-guage than just the ability to use lead. As I have said I will try non-toxic when I can actually buy it locally and i will give it a fair crack but since i dont really shoot waterfowl much at all then its really moot point. Actually It might mean more flag the sport of duck-shooting and move to other thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by Mike H
You would have thought that F&G would be advocating for the the majority views of its license-holders what ever that may be (however with out seeing any actual numbers the numbers I suspect like all things its been hijacked by the "squeeky wheel minority"
I really could not give a toss either way all I have ever asked is to be able to buy non toxic loads locally and only time will tell if this actually ever happens but I won't be holding my breath
no mikey I just like to dissect peoples bullshit stories piece by piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H
it must be love mike:DQuote:
One of the big distributors, not a shop, said he'd bring in even one case if I wanted
bullshit cough cough BULLSHIT.Quote:
As for Hull, they're a small player here so there may be restrictions on them. One of the suppliers I've talked to actually supplies H & f
ive talked to 3 separate franchise,es they have no intention of ordering any so that makes your supplier opinion redundant.you,d think so especialy after mikey and pauly got spanked for jumping the gun and not consulting their licence buyers in the first place.Quote:
You would have thought that F&G would be advocating for the the majority views of its license-holders what ever that may be (however with out seeing any actual numbers the numbers I suspect like all things its been hijacked by the "squeeky wheel minority
but no they,ve talked csi and eastern and a few of their other shooting buddies in other regions to support them and they,ve got the numbers now.
you wont see any concrete numbers of 20 gauge users even less chance for the 16 or 28.
but ok its in but please don't bullshit us its gonna be sunshine and lolliepops
are you under the mistaken impression your somebody mike?Quote:
Time will show me to be correct and arguing with a nobody on here won't achieve much.
unfortunately mike no you just sit alongside somebody at the southland meetings:D
So whats the problem? if you only shoot upland, and the odd duck then one box of steel for the 20 wont break the bank. It really is business as usual for upland hunters who use a sub-gauge.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
As for availability, if I can find 2.5 inch shells for a 16 gauge in this fair country, (in Dunedin of all places!) then I'm sure some clever cookie will bring in steel game loads for the 20. I think a few here need to untangle thy titties. It's not like you didn't see it coming, and they've given both shooters and ammo suppliers plenty of time to adapt.
As for the I don't use a 20 just so I can shoot lead, well, lets see how many sub-gauges get punted off on TM soon. And those that would give up duck shooting because they have to use steel probably weren't that keen to start with. If it was your passion you'd find a way to do it.
And I will add, this is coming from a guy who doesn't own a 12 bore. one 16, two 20s and a 28 bore.
I don't have an issue with using it.................................. the issue I have is buying it locally. I don't want to buy a slab only a couple boxes to keep just in case, nordo I want to faf about with ordering it online and paperwork from "the boys we all love and trust" I just want to be able to go to the store buy it and I'm not even meaning cheap, hell I would quite happily buy 2-3 boxes of Bismuth ammo if I could find itQuote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
And I already know quite a few guys who have swapped ducks for geese!!
Myself Id swap ducks for clays any day. Quail and Pheasants however I will continue to chase no matter how hard it gets or how the rules change.
I'm sure it will be available. In fact, a good side business opportunity for someone?
Great thing about the 4 year weaning period is that we'll know by then if steel is available or not. If not,then we can all rush out and buy a 10 gauge :) I love an excuse to buy another gun...
Personally the best thing I can see it I may finally get my SxS 28ga at a reasonable priceQuote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
Oh really, so I've never been and picked up Gamebore 20G steel direct from Kilwell, and then had trips back over the Mamaku's with 20 slabs making the arse of my ute drag on the ground? Well you'll forgive me for not losing any sleep on that while you unravel the mystery of the Gamebore ghost-ammo then. As I said to Mike via PM, I'm pretty much cleaned out of NSI stuff at the moment and I'm down to the last two slabs of B&P 12G steel target ammo....which according to your research doesn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
And nope, I've never shot at Treetops. Gully-shoots, and sporting is what I enjoy though.
It's a shame that you're not willing to listen to the information that people are freely sharing with you. You're solely focussed on finding excuses on why something couldn't possibly work, instead of using the energy constructively to actually make it work for you. Throwing people's names around like you do, innuendo and unfounded accusations just tells me that you're still looking for someone to blame. Sad really, it doesn't seem worth the negative energy to me.
I'd be disappointed if that was the response from the Hull Agent. But atleast you know that you don't need to give any of your hard earned cash if he isn't prepared to support the shooters who have supported him in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
And no disrespect to the persons you may have spoken to at H&F shops, but the decisions around importing things like ammo (being subject to a fair bit of negotiation, given the volumes they order) is done a fair way up the tree, like at Board level. And since it was their annual conference in Auckland last week, I'd say the important people were busy up there.
you said yourself gq theres gotta be a demand too make it worthwhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by gqhoon
plus ive already told you he said a minimum order would apply for him and me ..
so obviously you and mike have the numbers for 20 gauge users ??
and if a local maker wouldn't do it without the extra freight and hassle an overseas importer faces not to mention our high dollar.
why would anyone ??
what you really don't want to own up to is the fact that if your wrong which I believe you are.
every pump semi or other moderately priced 20 gauge loses 30 t0 50 % of its value the day this becomes law and you cant get waterfowl suitable loads for it.
less if it say a beretta browning or something of that ilk.
if that turns out to be true gun owners and licence buyers will know exactly whom to thank wont they.
.why would I be remotely interested in 12 gauge b&p steel in a discussion of subgauge steel you nob:DQuote:
I'm down to the last two slabs of B&P 12G steel target ammo....which according to your research doesn't exist.
minimum order was it ??Quote:
Oh really, so I've never been and picked up Gamebore 20G steel direct from Kilwell, and then had trips back over the Mamaku's with 20 slabs making the arse of my ute drag on the ground?
I said they have none advertised nor does anyone else
You women that shoot sub guages just need to man up and throw your rubbish on the heap where it belongs and get 12ga and get on with it :wtfsmilie:
12 gauge is for the weak. 10 bore is a mans gun!
3.5 inch 12g killed the 10g.
oh Nathan that you never grow old or frail:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Nathan F
both are the bastard sons of the same insanity.:yaeh am not durnk:Quote:
12 gauge is for the weak. 10 bore is a mans gun!3.5 inch 12g killed the 10g.
tho I did hear tell of a nationaly ranked presumembly well sponsored sporting shooter shooting magpies with 3.5 inch Remington nitromags in the wairarapa while we were there for the summer goose opening.
problem is it will start with no lead for ducks near water etc and end up as a total lead ban. you have to realise the people that make laws and more importantly their advisers are fuckwits
think we.l be okay the sight of people shooting each other with richocheting steel while indulging in the easter bunny hunt or any other rabbit control will keep lead in the game for a while yet.Quote:
=gonetropo;604145]problem is it will start with no lead for ducks near water etc and end up as a total lead ban. you have to realise the people that make laws and more importantly their advisers are fuckwits
same with clay shooting
tdon't know that I,d characterize everyone involved in these decisions that way.Quote:
you have to realise the people that make laws and more importantly their advisers are fuckwits
but I do feel a little tag teamed by some founding members of the reach around club fortunately not the clever ones.
Shortly followed by lead free rifle ammo mark my words, but them we will all either adapt.............................or give up as the case may beQuote:
Originally Posted by gonetropo
From the F&G Article:
“Lead shot will be progressively phased out from 2018 for waterfowl hunting over and around large bodies of water, so by the time the 2021 season begins, all hunters will be using non-toxic shot for this type of hunting,” Bryce Johnson says.
Barnes :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mikee
sweet we.l give Bryce a ring he,l have asked distributors and importers about whose gonna take up the slack and supply us??............................not fuckin likely:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Eyesplice
we can learn from our cuzzies across the tasman and get used to throwing bent fuckin sticks at them:ORLY:Quote:
Shortly followed by lead free rifle ammo mark my words, but them we will all either adapt.............................or give up as the case may be
