After looking thru the Fish and Game report for the coming season, gives me reason to believe that next year will be the last for lead in sub-gauges. Anyone know what's in the pipeline, was looking at a 20g Benelli, but are having second thoughts.
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After looking thru the Fish and Game report for the coming season, gives me reason to believe that next year will be the last for lead in sub-gauges. Anyone know what's in the pipeline, was looking at a 20g Benelli, but are having second thoughts.
wouldnt be holding my breath -this has been in the pot for many a year and frankly IMHO will remain so.unless of course some subservient F&G crew go grazing on the front lawn of maggie the denizen of the dahlias!!there is at least one whose claim to fame would be this accomplishment.selfish but egotistical that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetawa
Yep it seems f and g intend to be in the good books of maggie and are going to push for that.
You have the choice of not taking your licence for next year and writing to them why you do so. You can also write to your local mp.
doesnt worry me -ima 12g user anyhow ,but i do shoot with 20g users.F&G could do well to canvas them for their thoughts,as a bloody lot of F&G activity is paid for by shooters fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Friwi
ive also got a sneaking feeling this may be related to the rest of this govts review of firearms regulations and the act.
same old same old there be poor supply of the over heavy loads at exzorbitant prices in the wrong shot sizes.
nothing will be learned from the bigger gauges in evidence i give yopu the only available option 3 inch black cloud 2,s
probably see if i can get fosters to bring in some hull 20 steel
An article in a recent Dominion said Key rated Barry as one of his best MP's. Just shows how out of touch Key is with the community.Key would make Obama sound mono syllabic.Quote:
Originally Posted by kotuku
thats not saying much but compared to judith collins or hekia she,s a rocket scientist. :DQuote:
An article in a recent Dominion said Key rated Barry as one of his best MP's.
ive decided not to wait and am putting in motion a order with hulls agent for a slab or 3 of thier 20 gauge 24gram 1400fps load in 4,s and /or 5,s.
cos 3 inch 2,s are shit mallard and parry ammo and they defeat the purpose of using a 20 anyway.
[lighter wieght, same basic effective shot wieghts with less sholder hammer]
no prizes for guessin who,s been pissin in her ear couldnt get thier own way democraticly so weaselin round and back stabbin thier licence buyers.Quote:
Barry said she had received correspondence suggesting recreational hunters may be increasingly using sub-gauge guns for hunting waterfowl to circumvent the efforts to minimise the use of lead shot in and around waterways.
Southland Fish & Game manager Zane Moss said each Fish & Game council in New Zealand had to vote whether to ban lead shot in their area.
The Southland council has accepted the Minister's invitation to bring consideration of the sub-gauge exemption forward to this year and has recommended a staged transition away from the use of lead in sub-gauges, providing a continued exemption for .410s.
Moss said the Southland council has recommended a four-year transition period but the decision would be made by the New Zealand council.
i mean theyre dealin with the right party for that but you.d of thought thier diminshed vote would have encouraged them to turn over a new leaf.
but no once zealots always zealots i guess.:D
so far nothing knewQuote:
0ct 26th
Can I still use lead with my 20 gauge?
Yes, the ban applies to 10 and 12 gauge. The exemption remains for smaller gauge guns. For those people who wish to continue hunting using muzzle loading guns, regional Fish and Game Councils will consider applications for an exemption to allow the continued use of lead shot for those guns on a case by case and gun specific basis.
Leave the sub gauges alone please.
My view is that the large steel shot cartridges and the large semi-autos that go with them are unethical and detract from the ethos and traditions of wildfowl hunting.
All very well for Southland to pontificate. They have had and still have the most dense duck population in NZ. However, up here in Reporoa, which used to be world famous for its wildfowl hunting it is a fact that since the introduction of steel shot we are now devolving into a situation where F&G is mooting a total ban on duck shooting because the population is so low.
F&G and Waikato Regional Council also failed to make any significant attempt to support NZ Wildfowlers Assn and other wildfowlers in ensuring full protection of the upper Waikato river wetlands from the 13 ft ramping of the river proposed (and ultimately allowed) over a decade ago by Mighty River Power right from the RMA hearings which has resulted in the ruination of hundreds of acres of riverine wetland habitat by repeated flooding and drying of habitat, wetland, vegetation and nests.
The decline of duck and swan as well as bitterns, marsh crakes, banded rails, pukeko and grey / black duck, many associated swamp margin birds such as grey warbler and fern birds and groves of manuka and kanuka and other margin vegetation communities was all predicted and identified by NZ Wildfowlers Assn during the RMA hearings ( and I was a major author of those submissions) All these destructions were predicted as outcomes but ignored and or overridden by Sir Peter Tapsell and the submission hearings panel he chaired at the RMA consent hearings. WANZ felt very alone without the full backing and support of Waikato Regional Council and F&G at those hearings over a decade ago. Even DoC did next to nothing to support the wetlands.
Now WRC are increasing all our rates , supposedly to protect the upper Waikato catchment. What a crock of bullshit! They actually ABANDONED years ago, the original catchment protection rules such that they now have had no way of prosecuting land developers who cause mass siltation of the upper river and tributaries!
Now the Southlanders look like they are going even further along with the government to kill what is left of wildfowling in NZ.
Oh, buts its all OK folks, We''ll just blame duck hunters and lead shot. FFS. :pissed off:
doc and f&G, IN some regions,ARE SO INTERTWINED AND CO OPTED NOW ONES AS BAD AS THE OTHER.
but for certain southland zealots to push this cos of hubris is at odds with a lot of the good work they do down there.
thier case is blown out of the water by the shear numbers of waterfowl they have tho i note good goosehunting stories are few and far between now.
in pushing the lead subgauge myths they undo any goodwill they,ve build up thru habitat protection and water advocacy.
doc are really a pack of wankers .
if they bring in rules which are at odds with f&g rules thier excuse is dont look at us iwi need to be consulted to change them.
to which most of us would just throw up our hands and give up.
i predict the rakaia river to be the next major battleground a lot of damage is already done but there are now people who want to cut off a certain access route because hunters and guys sighting in thier rifles are scareing them when they go for a walk.
i also had a spirited discussion with a owner blaming private hunters for a 1080 incident which killed thier dog .
to which replied private fur gathers dont use 1080 because they cant recover the skins/fur.
''oh no thats not right'' she raved ''the council doc and ecan said it twerent them'':D
Been a while since I've been on here and noticed this post. Just to clarify this was not started by Southland Fish and Game or anyone associated with it. It was initiated by a letter from a private individual to the minister as far as I know. I won't name him here sorry but I'm sure if you've got the will it won't be hard to find. The minister has written to the NZ Council who then wrote to the regions for our comments on the ministers letter.
Here's a link to our minutes where it was discussed. You can see what the minister asked us and how we answered: http://southland.fishandgame.org.nz/...ust%202016.pdf
Its now with the NZ Council to make a final decision in December. I'm not going to be back on here for a while yet so no point asking me for more than what I've just given sorry.
Having read the parts of the meeting minutes relating to the steel shot issue I have this comment to make.
That NZF&G and Southland F&G and other regions need to remember the unwarranted actions taken by the previous Minister of DoC (Kate Wilkinson) in removing Canada Geese from being a managed game bird over the whole of NZ.
That edict by DoC was at the behest of vested interests which while being negatively affected by the geese in limited areas of NZ, by lobbying the anti gun and anti hunting Department of "Conservation" that undemocratic and overbearing government agency proceeded forthwith to negatively impact upon all wildfowl hunters in our country.
DoC is an unreasonable overbearing bullying anti hunting and anti introduced game animals and birds self serving bureaucracy and IMHO all F&G regional Councils and NZ F&G Councils, (non of which are funded by treasury at all , let alone to the tune of $100 million dollars like DoC is); tell DoC to PULL THEIR BLOODY HEADS IN.
Just because some parts of the world like for example beheading persons who disagree with their politics or religions it should never follow that New Zealanders accept others mantra's as justification to impose such an ultimatum as Minister Barry and her DoC staff have imposed on our (non government funded) wildfowl managers; I.E. prove to DoC the others in some parts of the world are wrong or else!
As we found with the Geese, being "nice" and "diplomatic" with DoC does us no dammed good at all.
Please note in my earlier post, it is not just the ducks that have GONE in our area. Practically ALL the indigenous waterfowl and wildfowl have gone in the SAME TIME PERIOD.
They darned well did NOT die of lead shot for God's sake! They died out because of government and regional council RMA edicts with tacit" DO NOTHING TO STOP THE DAMAGE", COURTESY OF DEPARTMENT OF "CONSERVATION" . In this process they ignored the information and recommendations of long experiences conservation minded wildfowlers the core of whom were very well qualified to make those recommendations aimed at preserving all the environments within and adjacent to the upper Waikato river and it's wetlands.
Are we going to be so darned STUPID and roll over for them again?
no surprises there mike you didnt even consult your own licence buyers till told to why would you explain yourself now.Quote:
Its now with the NZ Council to make a final decision in December. I'm not going to be back on here for a while yet so no point asking me for more than what I've just given sorry]
you must be on crack if you think we believe one person could get these clowns to change anything.
while you and the rest of the cargo cult said nothing and kept your obsession quiet.
pull the other one it plays dixie.
oh hang on was he rich, big landowner, overseas invester, middle eastern shiek??
dont worry mate you can shoot them on preserves by now.Quote:
They darned well did NOT die of lead shot for God's sake! They died out because of government and regional council RMA edicts with tacit" DO NOTHING TO STOP THE DAMAGE", COURTESY OF DEPARTMENT OF "CONSERVATION" . In this process they ignored the information and recommendations of long experiences conservation minded wildfowlers the core of whom were very well qualified to make those recommendations aimed at preserving all the environments within and adjacent to the upper Waikato river and it's wetlands.
Are we going to be so darned STUPID and roll over for them again?
ducks dont make as much money as milk and meat.
by the time docs finished there,l be none of you nasty guntotin types disturbing thier sandal wearing romp thr thier idea of nz bush and wetlands.
look at what the cheeky bastards did down south with that wetland supposed to be for duck and waterfowl hunters in perpetuity.
now suddenly its 5 shoots a season and bloody ngat tahu own it howd that happen.
Question from the floor...hypothetically, if the ban comes to pass, please tell me what I do with my 20g lead ammunition...will the provender take it back...? will we have to surrender it? Or is this too far down the track not to mean anything at this time...
Ah but yes, nothing like a goodly case of botulism to get everyone baking, ooops, barking...Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
It was'nt too many years ago when I attended a District Council meeting where the council was about to support another draconian DoC proposed edict which stated that no dogs were allowed to be on public (DoC) land if not on leash. I kicked up alone and without any support at all pointing out that no bird hunter would be able to hunt let alone retrieve birds in wetlands or heavy cover. Furthermore it would end pig hunting. Luckily there were some councillors present who liked catching pigs so the motion did not go through. Had it done so, DoC would have seen an end to much hunting in the Taupo CNI region. This is not bullshit. It really did happen. Shortly after this, they brought in the shock aversion edicts.
NZF&G need to be got the hell away from Minisrter of Conservation and become an independent (of DoC) entity.
Incidentally, what southland types have experience of hunting with 28 and 20 gauges gauge using "non toxic shot"? Especially where you might only see 3 or 4 ducks within 40 metres range on opening day??
Somebody needs to sort these dickheads out smartly.
Oh, but it's OK to shoot geese with any bloody bullet you like is'nt it dorks! Even over water where your Fed's mates shot into the geese on water from choppers with buckshot and leave the carcasses to rot FFS! DoC very supportive of course.
ah woody you poor cynical commonsence speaking and seeking romantic.
these are the same people that tell you not to be a greedy gus but dont remove thier mag extensions for duck season.
they count thier success on the number of limits they shoot and seemingly have access to subgauge steel that the rest of us dont.
the number of times ive heard they,l bring it in if theres a market [ah no they wont nobody currently has plans to]
yes 3 inch black cloud is available in small doses but its totaly unsutable for most duck hunting.
im trying to get another load but given the importers talking 2500 round minimum order i might struggle.
he,s getting back to me but even a case or two would be my limit.
the reason the chopper boys got away using lead is it wasnt stated so on thier permits
.it had been for every other ellesmere 12 gauge and up user for a few years but this oversight caused doc to spit the dummy penalise everybody and then play the ngai tahu card to forstall any hopes of a rethink for subgauge users.
kicking f&g in the nuts was just a happy coincidence for maggie teching them a lesson for interfering in water and farm issues.
but nobody overeacts like doc when dared to be questioned as the last word in conservation so they blanket banned all subgauge users medical certificate or not oh you black powder gunners are included to .
lets hope the solumbulent kiwi majority wake up sooner rather than later before their total income along with their freedoms and traditions become dissolved like the dumb insects caught in the foul juices of the venus flytrap.
Gees GSPF -you gave him (mike) a rock'nrollvolley like me with the escort on fire. BTW-I have an extended mag on that gun but please don't include me in your generalisations gents!
Im off to wildfowl nirvana shortly ,incidentally with a F&G organisation whom it seems understand shooters and cooperate with them.It sure as s..t aint the zealots of southland!!
Spain or Argentina?
Sure as hell won't be Victoria Australia!
I suppose the crew from F&G will get into the trough at DOC when there is zero licence money in the kitty, or will "Maggie" reward them for their support.
they are becoming interchangable to a point in some regions now tetawa.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetawa
if your inclined google the last election results in a few regions and see how many former/current doc staff stood. and how many f&g former staff work now for doc.
i,l give you a hand csi nth canterbury as a start.
The bullshit surrounding the steel shot issue has been around a fair while now. AsI pointed out earlier, the deaths by starvation and habitat destruction af many species of rare native waterfowl and marginal habitat birds and invertebrates has nothing to do with lead shot, but their demise is exactly paralleled by the demise of the ducks and swans. These facts really give the LIE to the steel shot mantra. Consider this piece of draconian greeny feel-good garbage alongside the banning of possum pies, the introduction of the Food Bill by the Minister of DoC which made it illegal to trade your home produce, the banning by Watercare in Jaffaland of people being able to collect and use rainwater off their own roofs and the innumerable farcical "non meaningful" or even completely ignored or banished pubic consultation processes through most regional councils in NZ;-- just a very few examples-- then think about the bully and bullshit tactics of DoC , the structure and increasing complexity of that and other career civil servant taxpayer funded bureaucracies and then think about the rates increases most of us are becoming slaves to , not by democratic process but by weak councillors succumbing to civil staff intent on increasing their overheads staff burden on ratepayers with the ultimate goal of securing million dollar "annual bonuses", again at the cost of rate payers and taxpayers.
NZ Fish & Game IMHO is in danger of being absorbed into DoC by almost by stealth and the ultimate result of this will be the same as has happened by design in Victoria; I.E. an end to hunting. Think further about the compulsory destruction of privately owned firearms in OZ done in conjunction with the end of wildfowling. Then think about how Aussies and Poms go about finding areas and permissions to hunt.
Southland would be tactically a great place to stealthily introduce draconian anti hunting and anti gun measures because the impacts will be less noticeable to hunters there than when the same restrictions are imposed in less well (game)populated wildfowl and game regions in NZ. Local AND F&G and firearms owners there need to kick political arses hard right now and not concede an inch.
same old same old make it to expencive for pople to consult or objectQuote:
the banning by Watercare in Jaffaland of people being able to collect and use rainwater off their own roofs and the innumerable farcical "non meaningful" or even completely ignored or banished pubic consultation processes through most regional councils in NZ
maybe airborne pollution is that bad in aucks???
there was a south island report or research out of dunedin i think that found lead poisoning in waterfowl but said it couldnt be lead shot..
There's heaps of lead available naturally in the NZ soils and environment which organisms can pick up and absorb and it is NOT lead shot..
I can see the fuckup coming already. Us that use other gauges for rabbits won't be able to get ammo, it's fucking hard enough now as everything comes in for 'duck shooters' and nothing else through the year.
As someone said earlier, simple solution DON'T BUY A LICENCE. If everyone did that those wankers would be out of a job fast.
And you do all realise that from now on F&G can not just walk onto any property unless they have been through the H&S system for each one, signed in etc etc etc etc etc etc...
That rule needs to apply to DoC , Councils and TBfree as well.
On your last point regarding the regs. Couldn't agree more! Categorisation = Leads to banning, just remember that guys!Quote:
Originally Posted by kotuku
Good point.