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Thread: Cahill? and media up to shenannigans again- God forbid they actually try the truth.

  1. #31
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    well if you can be excluded from the right it isnt a right then is it???? its determined by powers that be if you have it or have it not........lol round and round and round we go.
    gsp follower ...... yip thats what I remember..going to get permit to procure.....and to my mind we lost a GOOD thing when we changed that bit as it was a GOOD/POSITIVE interaction with police,the good lord knows we dont have enough of those anymore with our busy lives,which leads to the "us and them" thought process being ever more negative.
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  2. #32
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    If it is not a " Right " to own firearms then explain why it is in The Bill of Rights 1886 ?????

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    Koshogi.....you have right to apply....not right to own. if you had RIGHT to own you wouldnt need to APPLY...subtle difference but difference all the same.
    Going by that logic, you don't have a right to vote either.


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  4. #34
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    thats two centuries ago......stuffed if I know ,ask someone who was around when it was drafted....... you do realise at one point every household in NZ was allowed a handgun for home defence......
    I bet there are many other things in that same bill not legal/relevant/out dated today.....

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    well if you can be excluded from the right it isnt a right then is it???? its determined by powers that be if you have it or have it not........lol round and round and round we go.
    Your right to freedom can be taken away too.....

    Your right to life can be taken away.

    Any of your rights can be taken away by the 'powers that be'.

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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshogi View Post
    Your right to freedom can be taken away too.....

    Your right to life can be taken away.

    Any of your rights can be taken away by the 'powers that be'.

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    Right to life is normally taken by some arsehole that did not have the right to take it.
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  7. #37
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koshogi View Post
    Your right to freedom can be taken away too.....

    Your right to life can be taken away.

    Any of your rights can be taken away by the 'powers that be'.

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    what we seem to forget is that we live in a democracy........ what the majority vote for goes (dont mention the election process lol)
    the "powers that be" have that right because we as a society GAVE them the right to do so......
    and if we are splitting hairs Koshogi the powers that be DONT have right to take away your life........ oh thats right they do...but ONLY if they tick the boxes and follow due process.......... no different to joe public getting a firearm now is it????

    for what its worth Im pro firearm ownership for people who arent nut jobs and will respect laws of this country and behave
    if we dont like those laws unfortunately we have to rely on our democratic process elected officials to effect changes or keep status quo as the case may be.
    the more we rant and rave about what we have,the more we "seem" like nutters ourselves which just gives fuel to the ANTIs.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    what we seem to forget is that we live in a democracy........ what the majority vote for goes (dont mention the election process lol)
    the "powers that be" have that right because we as a society GAVE them the right to do so......
    and if we are splitting hairs Koshogi the powers that be DONT have right to take away your life........ oh thats right they do...but ONLY if they tick the boxes and follow due process.......... no different to joe public getting a firearm now is it????

    for what its worth Im pro firearm ownership for people who arent nut jobs and will respect laws of this country and behave
    if we dont like those laws unfortunately we have to rely on our democratic process elected officials to effect changes or keep status quo as the case may be.
    the more we rant and rave about what we have,the more we "seem" like nutters ourselves which just gives fuel to the ANTIs.
    Can the elected officials make any laws they wish? Can they strip rights away that are enshrined in law?

    "In these several articles consist the rights, or, as they are frequently termed, the liberties of Englishmen: liberties more generally talked of, than thoroughly understood; and yet highly necessary to be perfectly known and considered by every man of rank or property, lest his ignorance of the points whereon it is founded should hurry him into faction and licentiousness on the one hand, or a pusillanimous indifference and criminal submission on the other. And we have seen that these rights consist, primarily, in the free enjoyment of personal security, of personal liberty, and of private property. So long as these remain inviolate, the subject is perfectly free; for every species of compulsive tyranny and oppression must act in opposition to one or other of these rights, having no other object upon which it can possibly be employed. To preserve these from violation, it is necessary that the constitution of parliaments be supported in it's full vigor; and limits certainly known, be set to the royal prerogative. And, lastly, to vindicate these rights, when actually violated or attacked, the subjects of England are entitled, in the first place, to the regular administration and free course of justice in the courts of law; next to the right of petitioning the king and parliament for redress of grievances; and lastly to the right of having and using arms for self-preservation and defence. And all these rights and liberties it is our birthright to enjoy entire; unless where the laws of our country have laid them under necessary restraints. Restraints in themselves so gentle and moderate, as will appear upon farther enquiry, that no man of sense or probity would wish to see them slackened. For all of us have it in our choice to do every thing that a good man would desire to do; and are restrained from nothing, but what would be pernicious either to ourselves or our fellow citizens. So that this review of our situation may fully justify the observation of a learned French author, who indeed generally both thought and wrote in the spirit of genuine freedom; and who hath not scrupled to profess, even in the very bosom of his native country, that the English is the only nation in the world, where political or civil liberty is the direct end of it's constitution. Recommending therefore to the student in our laws a farther and more accurate search into this extensive and important title, I shall close my remarks upon it with the expiring wish of the famous father Paul to his country, "Esto perpetua!

    William Blackstone, Commentaries 1:120--41 - 1765

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  9. #39
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  10. #40
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    The 1689 Bill of Rights is the base on which effectively our Laws and Parliament are based ,it covers a lot of ground and has been Ratified / Enshrined in law .
    Basically it covers how /who and what Parliament can do and protections for the people ,and more . It is quite varied in being relevant to the time it was written and also to the present day .

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonetropo View Post
    yep but its a rigged conversation
    the guns are bieng brought in at a markup from less stringent states and sold on the down low.

    gsp follower ...... yip thats what I remember..going to get permit to procure.....and to my mind we lost a GOOD thing when we changed that bit as it was a GOOD/POSITIVE interaction with police,the good lord knows we dont have enough of those anymore with our busy lives,which leads to the "us and them" thought process being ever more negative.
    yep thing is as you say if its not us bieng to busy its them.
    i also laugh a little over they fact they treat you differently cos they know your a licence holder.
    if you get served or have anything to do with court people coming to see you.
    cop a look at the paper work they dont show you .
    ie big red section ''be aware firearms licence holder''

    case in point our local cop who ive never met or even talked to but he knows me apparently and always waves or says gidday.
    i always laughed at the incongruity of having to register and get the p to p for a pea rifle but not register something you could literaly take a pigs head off with.
    [2 3/4 inch remington 1 1/4 ounce 3,s, waioeka gorge opanae camp charlie king of kings meat fame the ultimate queen street farmer]
    had to cross a bridge to get into the joint in my dodge job rated truck with about 4 inches each side clearance

    what we seem to forget is that we live in a democracy........ what the majority vote for goes (dont mention the election process lol)
    the "powers that be" have that right because we as a society GAVE them the right to do so.
    so they have the right to take away our rights
    Last edited by gsp follower; 10-10-2017 at 07:15 PM.

  12. #42
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    A fair news report today Radio New Zealand Audio Player

    And an unfair, staged interview on TV tonight. https://www.facebook.com/TheProjectN...c_location=ufi

  13. #43
    Member Maca49's Avatar
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    AAAhhhh lifes a privilege, it can be revoked as well, drive safe!!
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    you say WHAT????
    Its not a right but a priveledge to own firearms here
    that has absolutely NOTHING to do with your bank balance eg how priveledged you are.....

    if you are a numbnuts and fall fowl of the law...or drink drive or beat up your Mrs or go walkines where you shouldnt be on regular basis or love to write threatening letters to the editor well really are you the type of person who SHOULD be incharge of firearms???? or vechiles for that matter....... had member of nzta mention that holding a class 5 drivers licence (thats HT to us old folk) is also a priveledge and can be revoked too.......
    Apparently we DO have the right to own firearms. @kotuku wrote a very erudite post about a year ago when I said something to the effect that the right to keep and bear arms is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution, whereas we don't even have a constitution. I think our "right" goes back to the Magna Carta but pardon me if I'm wrong. I'm afraid my memory isn't all that grouse, but I'm sure @kotuku wouldn't mind repeating what he told us on that one. It pisses me off that government has come to mean that people are elected to tell the populace how to live (2 minute showers, Helen. Fuk you Too.) and what is a "privilege". I had my Class 5 licence for over 20 years until i had a stroke 2 years ago, and can't get a medical clearance for another year, So it is rightfully suspended and I'm fine with that; I don't wanna be driving 44 tonnes and 23 metres and have another stroke. But it wasn't a privilege - it was something I worked and studied for, and bloody well EARNED and PAID for. That NZTA person should have known better than that- fukn bureaucrat.
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    I used to have a handle on Life - but it broke.

  15. #45
    Member keneff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P38 View Post
    @timattalon

    Wonder how they are getting on with this?

    Being able to investigate real crime that is.

    Seems someone miscalculated ......... My Lifetime licence lasted only a few years, even though I'm still living

    Cheers
    Pete
    Precisely, Pete. Along with the "lifetime" Driver Licence
    P38 likes this.
    I used to have a handle on Life - but it broke.

 

 

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