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Thread: Cahill? and media up to shenannigans again- God forbid they actually try the truth.

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by keneff View Post
    Precisely, Pete. Along with the "lifetime" Driver Licence
    @keneff

    I still got that one too

    And I agree with you bastards !

    Cheers
    Pete
    keneff likes this.
    Arguing with an Engineer is like Wrestling a Pig in Mud.

    After awhile you realise the Pig loves it.

  2. #47
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    how many car dead over the weekend and week??if
    it was gun deaths we,d be having a royal commission by next week
    whats thier solution/ lower the speed limit??.
    fuck me how stupid can you be?
    whats that going to do?? unless you have a cop policing every k of the reduced area??

    it,l salve thier concionses tho '' we reduced the limit anything theu do cos of speed is then thier own fault''
    inhuman burocratic money grubbING HAND WRINGING. dont have anything knew to add so do the same old shit
    if you do something knowing it aint gonna do shit to stop or even curb something is that negligence.
    they brought in that law of bieng able to hold ministers ceo,s department heads responcible for negligent deaths???
    like fuck they have and if this mob stays they never will.
    Last edited by gsp follower; 12-10-2017 at 02:18 PM.

  3. #48
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    Seriously mate....? You want to make some person in an office responsible for stupid people making stupid decisions and not driving to the road conditions which is a requirement under existing law?

    This moronic attitude of apportioning blame to anyone other that those that actually cause things to happen is a disease, created by the stupid and entitled, the irresponsible and the short sighted. It creates risk aversion, over regulation, loss of motivation and productvity, loss of creativity, no sense of genuine empathy and accountability and ultimately you become so stupid you end up believing that others are always the problem and supporting Labour....

    The irony of course is that your argument is entirely the same as those claiming nett loss from the existance of firearms and not just the misuse of them..
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  4. #49
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    The irony of course is that your argument is entirely the same as those claiming nett loss from the existance of firearms and not just the misuse of them..
    no it aint my arguement is the ability to just walk in off the street and buy the most powerful vehicle your cash situation allows with out a licence is stupid and a situation the government could do something about [no licence no buy no car].

    .
    Seriously mate....? You want to make some person in an office responsible for stupid people making stupid decisions and not driving to the road conditions which is a requirement under existing law?
    how about we just make the responcible for not saying exactly whay you have and just pr,ing?
    does haVING CANBERS ON THE CORNERS of main roads, which tends you to drift to the centre line or over, tired or otherwise not make the roading ministry partially responcible?
    ?what about the black spots they,ve just put signs on instead of actually remediating them yet.??
    does someone have responcibility for every death that comes after just a sign??
    or can spomeone be held accountable for doing nothing knowing people will die it bieng justv a matter of time. ??
    id be happy if they,d at least say we cant legislate for stupidity instead of this speed limit tinkering bollocks.
    ultimately you become so stupid you end up believing that others are always the problem and supporting Labour....
    or you became a fuck you jack im alright, feed the peasants cake, the poor are the authors of thier own misfortune tory.
    even given the evidence that a growing poor quota in the west is considered the next big investment oppurtunity and that even working wont neccessarily keep you above the poverty line.,
    Last edited by gsp follower; 12-10-2017 at 06:43 PM.

  5. #50
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    In reply to the comment above, some "black spots" are just areas where drivers get complacent. I was in the North Island some years ago and was driving along a notorious black spot of the time on my motorbike. (Hamilton to Auckland just below the motorway) and it was littered with white crosses. All I could think to myself was "How did they crash there" Smooth straight is road, open clear gentle corners and a decent road surface. I could not work it out. I looked into it with a roading engineer when I returned who was helping remedy similar problems. He informed me that years earlier the Black spot had been the 10kms further north so they thought that by extending the motorway 10 ks they would stop the accidents. All the did was move them 10ks south. The black spot itself was not the actual stretch of road, but the fact that it was the first section after leaving the motorway. People were impatient and travelling in the same way they would on a motorway, not wanting to slow down or travel at speeds suited to the conditions and were crashing into things as they tried to over take etc.

    I travel around the country down here a lot. And a lot of the black spots are simply places that are simply created a road condition that people decide not to slow down to. Heavy traffic is a road condition, animals are a road condition, people are a road condition in the way that these are conditions that you need to drive to. You should ALWAYS be able to stop in the distance you can see in front of you. I dont care that you know the corner and that you can get around it at speeds faster than that, but the cyclist, pedestrian, fallen tree or other hazard that you cannot see will still be there and you wont be able to pull up in time.

    If the seven basic rules are followed with firearms, then NO ONE will ever get hurt. One or more MUST be broken for someone to be injured by a firearm. If we drive to the conditions and obey the rules as they are now, accidents should reduce dramatically.

    I may sound like a grandad, but to all who read this; drive safe, stay safe , and keep those around you safe. We all deserve to get home to our families. And our families need us to get there. No one deserves to deal with the fall out.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsp follower View Post
    no it aint my arguement is the ability to just walk in off the street and buy the most powerful vehicle your cash situation allows with out a licence is stupid and a situation the government could do something about [no licence no buy no car].

    .
    how about we just make the responcible for not saying exactly whay you have and just pr,ing?
    does haVING CANBERS ON THE CORNERS of main roads, which tends you to drift to the centre line or over, tired or otherwise not make the roading ministry partially responcible?
    ?what about the black spots they,ve just put signs on instead of actually remediating them yet.??
    does someone have responcibility for every death that comes after just a sign??
    or can spomeone be held accountable for doing nothing knowing people will die it bieng justv a matter of time. ??
    id be happy if they,d at least say we cant legislate for stupidity instead of this speed limit tinkering bollocks.

    or you became a fuck you jack im alright, feed the peasants cake, the poor are the authors of thier own misfortune tory.
    even given the evidence that a growing poor quota in the west is considered the next big investment oppurtunity and that even working wont neccessarily keep you above the poverty line.,

    So much to work with...

    No mention of buying a car without a licence in your last lot of irrationality chap... if that was your point, its not actually part of an argument, afterwards.. pretty sure also that that isn't a significant part of the problem - neither

    There will always be parts of the roading network that will be more dangerous than other parts... if people can't read signs, and drive to the road conditions, take their licences aways from them. It's called enforcement. They alone are responsible.

    Your don't get cake unless your deserve it in my world fella. People who cannot take care of themselves get bread, and that I am happy to contribute to, anything more than that is destructive.

    People that can help themselves that demand that others pay for anything, are arseholes.

    People with your unfortunate attitude are the cause of the problems. You are right about one thing however, unskilled work is going to be subsistance at best. Increasing automation will eliminate more of this. Heightened risk in employment, OSH, lack of ability to manage employees, and the lowering cost of automation will ensure this. Only solution is to upskill to beat a rising tide chap...

    Another wee gem for you, the peasants have always been poor. But having the resources to provide food and shelter is not poverty. Not having food and shelter, but having ciggies, booze drugs and a big dog is not poverty either, its a lifestyle choice.

  7. #52
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    Another wee gem for you, the peasants have always been poor. But having the resources to provide food and shelter is not poverty. Not having food and shelter, but having
    ciggies, booze drugs and a big dog is not poverty either, its a lifestyle choice.
    guess you gotta know what to invest in a
    Another wee gem for you
    gems are valuable that bit of type casting builshit aint
    .
    People that can help themselves that demand that others pay for anything, are arseholes.
    yep i,l mention that to the armless handless meatworkers i know and the multitude of whom that[work] eion made wait 3 months before even considerong paying them acc.
    even tho the knew they were injured at work ??
    Last edited by gsp follower; 12-10-2017 at 09:09 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsp follower View Post
    .
    People that can help themselves that demand that others pay for anything, are arseholes.


    yep i,l mention that to the armless handless meatworkers i know and the multitude of whom that[work] eion made wait 3 months before even considerong paying them acc.
    even tho the knew they were injured at work ??
    I would suggest that people who have been injured at work and no longer able to work, such as your example, are not in the group of "People that can help themselves that demand that others pay for anything" as the OP is referring to those who are capable of work but choose to ask for handouts. I am all for helping those who need it, but am reluctant to support those who simply want it because they do not want to learn or work.

  9. #54
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    I would suggest that people who have been injured at work and no longer able to work, such as your example, are not in the group of "People that can help themselves that demand that others pay for anything
    well thats how eion see,s them
    expecting them to wait a minimum of three months for any acc
    and once operated on or helped expected to turn up one arm one leg what ever to do menial jobs for thier acc.
    for which they have already contributed and eion has sat on gaining the interest forever and a day.
    as the OP is referring to those who are capable of work but choose to ask for handouts
    possibly anyone injured at work is capable of doing something but who gets to draw the line.
    who knows who,s capable of work its all just bias and assumption.
    ciggies, booze drugs and a big dog is not poverty either, its a lifestyle choice]
    so how many kiwis do this sidney you must have firm numbers.?

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by timattalon View Post
    Cahill? and media up to shenannigans again- God forbid they actually try the truth.

    I got sent this article form stuff.

    Pretty dramatic stuff with the headline "Cops seizing two guns a day in Christchurch"

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cri...n-christchurch

    However reading the details, of the 557 gun that went into police custody (I wont say seized as that is clearly and patently UNTRUE!)

    Quote "138 were destructions, some of which were handed in voluntarily"

    Quote "Sixty-three involved family harm incidents where police decided to take guns from the property" (ie they were in LEGAL possession of the firearms but the police removed them as a preventative measure)

    Quote "Safekeeping – 82"

    Quote "Firearm licence suitabilities – 55" (Not entirely sure what this refers to but I can promise that if it was criminal it would not be a small not at the end of the article....)

    Meaning that potentially 338 were from LEGAL ownership and that " 219 were due to criminal offences" This is less than half of what the headline suggests.

    More proof that Stuff reporting is mostly BOLLOCKS!!!!! (Definition of mostly = MORE THAN HALF!)


    I got this reply from the editor...

    Dear XXX

    Firstly, sorry for the delayed response to your email. I have been away from the office for several days this week.

    I understand that you are believe the use of the word "seized" is inappropriate on this story.

    It is a word that is commonly used in association with the police. The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of seized includes as "to take possession of by legal process".

    It is in this context the word "seized" has been used. Police have taken possession of these guns.

    You also throw doubt on the veracity of information provided by Chris Cahill. However, this article does not depend on facts provided by him. His contribution is to speak on behalf of Canterbury officers who are concerned by the number of firearms they are encountering. Given the facts which are included in the article, his expressed concern is fair comment.

    regards


    XXXXX
    "Staff position"

    I have blanked out the names and the staff position as I do not want to publish identifying information into a public domain without that persons permission. Its more than they would do for me but I have morals.....

    I also replied with

    Hello

    Thank you for your response. Though, truthfully, did not expect one.

    First point I would like to make is the way that media seems to delight in publishing part of the story and not the whole story in order to make it sound more inflammatory or distorted than it is. As an example you state in your reply you state "The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of seized includes as "to take possession of by legal process"."

    when the full details from that same dictionary are as quoted below.
    Definition of seize
    seized; seizing
    transitive verb
    1 a usually seise play \ˈsēz\ :to vest ownership of a freehold estate in
    b often seise :to put in possession of something

    the biographer will be seized of all pertinent papers

    2 a) :to take possession of :confiscate
    b) :to take possession of by legal process

    3 a) :to possess or take by force :capture
    b) :to take prisoner :arrest
    4 a) :to take hold of :clutch
    b) :to possess oneself of :grasp
    c) :to understand fully and distinctly :apprehend

    In the context that you wrote in your reply it would be taken as an expansion of the statement above meaning "To confiscate by legal process." This being the addition of the two words "by legal process" to the statement above it in the same definition parallel. Thus it would mean that it HAS been used improperly. In fact the only definition above which is not able to be used instead and have everyone understand the truth is the final one which means to understand. Seized, grasped, clutched, captured, arrested, and confiscate all have a clearer meaning that the incorrect use of seized that you used.

    Taking what you have stated below, this raises further questions. If you know that "seized" is being used in the way you have used it, and knowing that is not how it will be interpreted by the general public due to the common usage of that word I have two questions.

    1) Why did you not use the term "Taken possession of" knowing the public would understand more clearly what this meant? ....This does sound nearly as dramatic as the word "seized" because of most people understanding of the definition of it. To clarify to the readers you could have used the term "confiscated" but the number confiscated is MUCH lower and also doesn't sound nearly as dramatic.

    2) Knowing that it would be misunderstood in it meaning, why did the paper not clarify in the article, the truth of the matter? Why did you not clearly identify how many had been voluntarily surrendered and how many had been confiscated?

    I know this may sound like a complaint, and in some ways it is. But from a retail perspective, we take a complaint to be a request to improve something with which we have failed or done poorly. Here, in this situation I see the way that the paper has lowered its previous high standards and is now performing poorly. I desire to see the Press and Stuff lift their game and return to the position of respect and truth it once held. Unfortunately the standards do seem to have a lowered a lot and I expect this change in attitude and performance will not be easy. I also feel if no one tells you that your performance has dropped, then you are unlikely to see this on your own and will continue with sub-par performance thinking that it is acceptable, when clearly it is not.

    Thank you
    Last edited by timattalon; 13-10-2017 at 02:01 PM. Reason: formatting

  11. #56
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    Lets see if I get a response to that, and what they say.......

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    well done tim

  13. #58
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    ciggies, booze drugs and a big dog is not poverty either, its a lifestyle choice]
    so how many kiwis do this sidney you must have firm numbers.?
    Methinks you miss the point... I made no claim about the extent of this... I simply pointed out that you don't get to claim poverty ie lack of food & shelter, if you are wasting money on other things.
    gadgetman and timattalon like this.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
    ciggies, booze drugs and a big dog is not poverty either, its a lifestyle choice]


    Methinks you miss the point... I made no claim about the extent of this... I simply pointed out that you don't get to claim poverty ie lack of food & shelter, if you are wasting money on other things.
    I agree here with the view that options and priorities are a big part of the issue. A single pack of cigarettes cost how much? Last time I checked I can feed a family of four a decent hot meal for less. How much is a dozen beers? similar money? I do not believe you can cry hardship or poverty with a cigarette in one hand and a stubbie in the other.....

    Life is choices. Some are hard, some are easy. But those life choices define us. I know some who started with nothing and worked hard, made good choices and made a life for themselves, and I know others that were given more opportunity, more resources (from state and other places) and yet still cry poor.

    I do think we need to address poverty, and help others making tough choices, but there is a point where you have to say, that it is not necessarily poverty when the kids dont get fed, because after the parents paid for the cigarettes and beer there was no money for food..... I would definitely point out that most make a good effort and like most situations in todays world, often the ones making the most noise are the outliers / bad examples that get thrown up as examples by both side. Think "exception rather than rule...."
    gsp follower likes this.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
    ciggies, booze drugs and a big dog is not poverty either, its a lifestyle choice]


    Methinks you miss the point... I made no claim about the extent of this... I simply pointed out that you don't get to claim poverty ie lack of food & shelter, if you are wasting money on other things.
    ...this.... and we live in a country where people spend money they have (either by effort, entitlement or assistance) without government oversight.... a very slippery path to require full disclosure of how your money is spent if assistance is received...
    The progeny of these people are the ones that will rob your house in later life if we get it wrong - and this is why I'm all for outsourcing justice to Saudi Arabia or China... but that's another story....
    Last edited by Nickoli; 13-10-2017 at 05:47 PM.
    timattalon likes this.

 

 

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