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Thread: Firearms lawyer

  1. #31
    Member GravelBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40mm View Post
    Do you know of any cases where there was a better outcome?
    I seem to remember one (was it the guy from Timaru who took an E-cat to a public toilet to make a point about the law?) where an A-cat AR was stored with an A-cat magazine, the guy also had an E-cat with its magazine. Police inserted the E-cat mag into the A-cat AR (maybe removing the A-cat mag first?) before submitting it as evidence. From memory it was thrown out because the original photos from the search showed that it wasn't in E-cat configuration until the police made it that way.

    Not sure on the details though, my memory could be mixing up bits of different cases.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GravelBen View Post
    I seem to remember one (was it the guy from Timaru who took an E-cat to a public toilet to make a point about the law?) where an A-cat AR was stored with an A-cat magazine, the guy also had an E-cat with its magazine. Police inserted the E-cat mag into the A-cat AR (maybe removing the A-cat mag first?) before submitting it as evidence. From memory it was thrown out because the original photos from the search showed that it wasn't in E-cat configuration until the police made it that way.

    Not sure on the details though, my memory could be mixing up bits of different cases.
    I hope the cops who did that lost their jobs. preferably get prosecuted for being assholes.
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  3. #33
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    I will try them on Tuesday cheers

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40mm View Post
    how about we shooters all join an association who charge a yearly fee to lobby for our interests and that fee also includes insurance premiums against legal fees etc.
    Or something along those lines.

    Any COLFO or SSANZ reps on here? wanna weigh in on this idea or PM me?

    Could be money well spent, as im sure the yearly fee would likely go up by the price of a box of ammo or two.

    UNITED WE STAND. divided we shoot no more.
    Any insurance experts who could assist with a thing like this?
    Use enough gun

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    Quote Originally Posted by mick View Post
    I have a A cat and a Ar15 and a couple of other firearms, a empty 20 round mag was found in the same room as the firearms
    Well, with reading the case law posted by stug, it sounds like you may be fucked.

    Unless you can show that the magazine fits another one of your A cat rifles that is.
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  6. #36
    Member GravelBen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40mm View Post
    I hope the cops who did that lost their jobs. preferably get prosecuted for being assholes.
    Found some more info here: https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/07/u...r-shot-pieces/

    and the full judgement here: https://www.scribd.com/document/3539...ichard-Lincoln

    Obviously the police were way out of line in many ways (unlawful searches, tampering with evidence etc), but I can't see anything about those police officers being punished.

    The judge states there that having larger magazines in the same safe as the AR with 5-round magazine inserted does not make it an MSSA, there must be proof beyond reasonable doubt that the larger magazine was attached or intended to be attached.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GravelBen View Post
    Found some more info here: https://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2017/07/u...r-shot-pieces/

    and the full judgement here: https://www.scribd.com/document/3539...ichard-Lincoln

    Obviously the police were way out of line in many ways (unlawful searches, tampering with evidence etc), but I can't see anything about those police officers being punished.

    The judge states there that having larger magazines in the same safe as the AR with 5-round magazine inserted does not make it an MSSA, there must be proof beyond reasonable doubt that the larger magazine was attached or intended to be attached.
    Lincoln has a E endorsement. So would likely have a reason for magazines bigger than 7 rounds.
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  8. #38
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    You need no reason and no licence to own an 8+ magazine. And if lincoln had had that 8+ magazine inserted in that A cat rifle when searched he would have been in the shit.

    But he didnt.

    And nor did the OP apparantly.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Towely View Post
    You need no reason and no licence to own an 8+ magazine. And if lincoln had had that 8+ magazine inserted in that A cat rifle when searched he would have been in the shit.

    But he didnt.

    And nor did the OP apparantly.
    But read the two pieces of case law posted by stug.

    Neither of the two guys had the big magazines fitted into the guns. The magazines were nearby and yet both were convicted of having a MSSA.

    So the case law clearly shows (in two different cases) that having the big magazine and a semi-auto gun that it fits, means the gun is a MSSA.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post
    So the case law clearly shows (in two different cases) that having the big magazine and a semi-auto gun that it fits, means the gun is a MSSA.
    It was considered to mean that in those specific cases, with those specific sets of circumstances (which we don't have all the details of). The judge in the Lincoln case said pretty clearly that it can't be assumed and must be proven beyond reasonable doubt on the specific facts of each case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post
    So the case law clearly shows (in two different cases) that having the big magazine and a semi-auto gun that it fits, means the gun is a MSSA.
    Hypothetically, if I have a 10/22 with 10round mags and a ruger American 22 with 25round ones. I keep all my mags in a locked tool box besides gun safe, my 10/22 becomes a MSSA..... God new Zealand firearm laws are strange

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    having talked to local AO about similar as was looking at buying a ar15 and was also looking at a mvp predator that comes standard with a 10 round magazine his opinion was that it was fine if I kept magazines separate from rifles when storing and did not attempt to fit the larger magazine to the ar15 when hunting. this was his advice to me when I was making enquiries about this.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223nut View Post
    Hypothetically, if I have a 10/22 with 10round mags and a ruger American 22 with 25round ones. I keep all my mags in a locked tool box besides gun safe, my 10/22 becomes a MSSA...
    Nah, systolic is assuming a bit too far - if the police wanted to charge you with that they would have to prove you were using or intending to use the 25 round with the 10/22 rather than the American.

    It might be legally safer to keep the 10 round mag in the 10/22 when you aren't using it though if you're worried about that?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223nut View Post
    Hypothetically, if I have a 10/22 with 10round mags and a ruger American 22 with 25round ones. I keep all my mags in a locked tool box besides gun safe, my 10/22 becomes a MSSA..... God new Zealand firearm laws are strange
    It's obviously a bit different when you have a gun, other than the semi-auto, that takes the same magazines.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GravelBen View Post
    Nah, systolic is just making assumptions again - if the police wanted to charge you with that they would have to prove you were using or intending to use the 25 round with the 10/22 rather than the American.

    It might be legally safer to keep the 10 round mag in the 10/22 when you aren't using it though if you're worried about that?
    I'm not assuming anything. I'm reading what the court has decided.
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