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Thread: The Real Issue - Confiscation of Private Property

  1. #1
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    The Real Issue - Confiscation of Private Property

    The State is forcibly confiscating Privately Owned Property. That is real and fundamental issue at the heart of the misnamed 'firearms buyback scheme', not the confiscation of firearms 'per say' but the confiscation of 'legally obtained and owned private property'. This is a very slippery slope towards a third world type of oppressive 'control everything' government regime.
    I would urge everyone who reads this to make sure that in any correspondence with MP's, Media, talkback radio etc to emphasise this fact. ( The government security staff screening this post would do well to reflect on this matter too as they read our posts and look for subversive content)
    How would 'Joe Public' like it if the Police were to walk onto their property and say "We are confiscating one third of your section for a Government project, by Order in Council and you will be compensated at a rate that the government decides which is 70% of the market rate, failure to comply will result in your arrest and a Prison term" sign here !

    Act has said that the law change process was not democratic etc etc but what they, nor any other parties have not said, is that this is a law change designed to legalise enforced confiscation of the private property of the countries law abiding citizens. Where this leaves us I don't know.
    What I do know is that at every opportunity I will be correcting any media that call firearms confiscation a 'Buyback'
    'Bother' said Pooh, as he chambered another round ... Wong Far King Way

  2. #2
    OPCz Rushy's Avatar
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    While you are at it Moa Hunter, look up the meaning of the word “extortion” and tell me that doesn’t fit these circumstances as well.
    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
    What more do we need? If we are above ground and breathing the rest is up to us!
    Rule 1: Treat every firearm as loaded
    Rule 2: Always point firearms in a safe direction
    Rule 3: Load a firearm only when ready to fire
    Rule 4: Identify your target beyond all doubt
    Rule 5: Check your firing zone
    Rule 6: Store firearms and ammunition safely
    Rule 7: Avoid alcohol and drugs when handling firearms

  3. #3
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    And innocent untill proven guilty of committing an offence
    Got Juice? likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushy View Post
    While you are at it Moa Hunter, look up the meaning of the word “extortion” and tell me that doesn’t fit these circumstances as well.
    While it might feel like Extortion to you Rushy just as much as it feels like non-consented Anal Sex to me, the fact that there is 'compensation' for the confiscated private property means that it does not quite fit the meaning of extortion IMO. Also IMO it is important that we as a group refer to the matter as 'confiscation'
    Shame we can't get a similar spray to put on our firearms.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoQFiaz-zI
    Boaraxa likes this.
    'Bother' said Pooh, as he chambered another round ... Wong Far King Way

  5. #5
    OPCz Rushy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moa Hunter View Post
    While it might feel like Extortion to you Rushy just as much as it feels like non-consented Anal Sex to me, the fact that there is 'compensation' for the confiscated private property means that it does not quite fit the meaning of extortion IMO. Also IMO it is important that we as a group refer to the matter as 'confiscation'
    Shame we can't get a similar spray to put on our firearms.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoQFiaz-zI
    “The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, or fear, or under colour of official right”. Seems fairly close to me despite the inadequate compensation being offered.
    gadgetman, stingray, mikee and 4 others like this.
    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
    What more do we need? If we are above ground and breathing the rest is up to us!
    Rule 1: Treat every firearm as loaded
    Rule 2: Always point firearms in a safe direction
    Rule 3: Load a firearm only when ready to fire
    Rule 4: Identify your target beyond all doubt
    Rule 5: Check your firing zone
    Rule 6: Store firearms and ammunition safely
    Rule 7: Avoid alcohol and drugs when handling firearms

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moa Hunter View Post
    While it might feel like Extortion to you Rushy just as much as it feels like non-consented Anal Sex to me, the fact that there is 'compensation' for the confiscated private property means that it does not quite fit the meaning of extortion IMO. Also IMO it is important that we as a group refer to the matter as 'confiscation'
    Shame we can't get a similar spray to put on our firearms.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veoQFiaz-zI
    Respectfully - when the Mafia provide protection in return for payment, the fact some 'protection' was supplied does not negate the act of extortion.

    Classical definition of extortion: Extortion. The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.

    Jacinda 'Pelosi' Ardern also clearly believes in the concept of 'first we pass the law (to extort you), only then do you find out what we charge (to extort you).'
    Banana, Got Juice? and wanneroo like this.

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    I had this exact same conversation with someone at work yesterday.
    With a great deal off difficulty I managed to get him to abstract the issue from firearms (this was after my lecture about "weapons" and "buy back") and focus on the confiscation of legally obtained and owned private property.
    The look on his face when he got it was priceless, for a smart guy, he was remarkably thick about it.

    And that is what we are up against, non firearms owners don't get it because they don't see how it effects them.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by imaca View Post
    I had this exact same conversation with someone at work yesterday.
    With a great deal off difficulty I managed to get him to abstract the issue from firearms (this was after my lecture about "weapons" and "buy back") and focus on the confiscation of legally obtained and owned private property.
    The look on his face when he got it was priceless, for a smart guy, he was remarkably thick about it.

    And that is what we are up against, non firearms owners don't get it because they don't see how it effects them.
    This is the point @imaca. Now lets not go off on momentum loosing tangents @Rushy, worrying about the semantics of Confiscation Versus Extortion. I believe the term Confiscation is correct in this case and I believe that it is the term that the Public will understand and can relate to their own private property when we use the analogy of their property being taken.

    The protection of 'Private Property Rights' is fundamental to our society. It is a cornerstone of our democracy and way of life.
    DUCKHUNTER and outlander like this.
    'Bother' said Pooh, as he chambered another round ... Wong Far King Way

  9. #9
    OPCz Rushy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moa Hunter View Post
    This is the point @imaca. Now lets not go off on momentum loosing tangents @Rushy, worrying about the semantics of Confiscation Versus Extortion. I believe the term Confiscation is correct in this case and I believe that it is the term that the Public will understand and can relate to their own private property when we use the analogy of their property being taken.

    The protection of 'Private Property Rights' is fundamental to our society. It is a cornerstone of our democracy and way of life.
    Happy to concur. We are aligned in our thinking and I have been calling it a confiscation for as long as the erroneous term “buy back” has been used. I am aggrieved by what has happened and am inclined to be antagonistic toward the government and the Police over this predicament we find ourselves in hence my use of the word extortion.
    Moa Hunter likes this.
    It takes 43 muscle's to frown and 17 to smile, but only 3 for proper trigger pull.
    What more do we need? If we are above ground and breathing the rest is up to us!
    Rule 1: Treat every firearm as loaded
    Rule 2: Always point firearms in a safe direction
    Rule 3: Load a firearm only when ready to fire
    Rule 4: Identify your target beyond all doubt
    Rule 5: Check your firing zone
    Rule 6: Store firearms and ammunition safely
    Rule 7: Avoid alcohol and drugs when handling firearms

  10. #10
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    imaca..... use a four wheel drive vechile as a comparison
    I have when earlier on trying to decribe why what happened could happen

    big accident/incident with fwds so govt in order to stop it happening makes laws
    #you can keep your prado/hilux/terrano/niva/jimmy/humvee etc etc BUT FROM THIS DAY FORTHWITH you can only run road tyres with tread depth of less than 7mm and fuel tanks must be reduced to 35ltrs
    theory being you cant get far and wont get far off road
    now people suck it up and get on with life UNTILL some cardealer desides to import a heap of 2wd wagons with same stud pattern and sell them with super grippy tyres
    now he also sells 40 ltr gerry cans (that fuel container for you younguns)
    so fast forward a few years.young Billy Bob goes and buys his first ute
    gets a hilux 4wd with the road slicks and the sales guy also sells him some spare rims and grippy tyres for the 2wd wagon at home wink wink and a fuel can,just in case... Billy Bob goes away happy and after awhile it becomes normal to go fwding up riverbeds etc again

    see how SIMILAR that would be to whats happened to firearms????
    now we have situation where the govt has seen whats going on and has knee jerked into gear and banned all four wheel drive vechiles completely...other than fert sowing trucks and ambulances and military wagons...
    suddenly all prado owners on Queen st in Auckland will have thier shiny wagons taken off them and be paid hyandai prices.
    Steve123 likes this.

  11. #11
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    now rereading that I wonder if what happened with noisy exhausts may apply....that got chucked into too hard basket cause lawyers own harleys....have deep pockets and were prepared to fight it.
    outlander likes this.

  12. #12
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    @sightpicture

    I could not send this to you via pm for some reason... enjoy!

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    stingray, Maca49, Woody and 5 others like this.

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    It is the same principle that operates under the Public Works act. Parliament is the supreme law maker in NZ.It is just that the PM does not seperate the police from her views on law abiding NZers and the police had a wonderful advocate for their band wagon to have guns banned. You can gently remind the PM all her vaunted vanity may mean jack in the ballot box next election. Pity is that National are such a dreadful alternative. Seymour may be bound to uphold commonsense. Winston is now well past the senility gauge.
    Woody and outlander like this.

  14. #14
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    Keep it in the firearms law changes subforum, there is not a license to post politics wherever you like on here.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeRei View Post
    It is the same principle that operates under the Public Works act. Parliament is the supreme law maker in NZ.It is just that the PM does not seperate the police from her views on law abiding NZers and the police had a wonderful advocate for their band wagon to have guns banned. You can gently remind the PM all her vaunted vanity may mean jack in the ballot box next election. Pity is that National are such a dreadful alternative. Seymour may be bound to uphold commonsense. Winston is now well past the senility gauge.
    You are right that it is the same principal however when property is taken under the PWA it has to fit certain criteria and while Poly's might argue that there is a public good it is also a principal that market rates are paid for compensation and property taken but not required must be offered back to the original owner.
    sightpicture likes this.
    'Bother' said Pooh, as he chambered another round ... Wong Far King Way

 

 

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