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Thread: Some stats from the country wth a LOT of guns

  1. #1
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    Some stats from the country wth a LOT of guns

    Thought this might stir up a conversation or three:-

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...&id=1047039011
    GravelBen, xtightg and Xpat like this.

  2. #2
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    Excellent article, but you'll never read it on "Stuff" their agenda and the ones they follow would not allow logical figures to be shown in their domain.

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    cant let real facts get in the road of the new gun laws as the govt must make all the changes and enforce them before the sheeple wake up and realise everyone is going to get shafted so jackboot jacinda can have her dream of utopia and rule us all as she sees fit.

  4. #4
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    All good until the end when they start talking about governments wanting to disarm the population so they can exert control. I'm getting a bit sick of reading this stuff since Christchurch. We are not the USA and it doesn't do us any favours. We own guns for hunting, pest control, target shooting, or just because we like them, not because we want to form some half-baked civilian militia. Anyone disagree? I have nothing in common with these American nut jobs.

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    Some stats from the country wth a LOT of guns

    Quote Originally Posted by MB View Post
    All good until the end when they start talking about governments wanting to disarm the population so they can exert control. I'm getting a bit sick of reading this stuff since Christchurch. We are not the USA and it doesn't do us any favours. We own guns for hunting, pest control, target shooting, or just because we like them, not because we want to form some half-baked civilian militia. Anyone disagree? I have nothing in common with these American nut jobs.
    The thing you have in common with those nut jobs is that you are a firearms user. If they do/don’t come and take our firearms eventually...we’ll I guess time will tell and we’ll be either be right or wrong


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Wirehunt and xtightg like this.

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    i used to watch those prepper tv shows and laughed thought they where a bit over the top now watching the extreme changes in the political control going on here i start to wonder are we the experiment to see how to get it to work?
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB View Post
    All good until the end when they start talking about governments wanting to disarm the population so they can exert control. I'm getting a bit sick of reading this stuff since Christchurch. We are not the USA and it doesn't do us any favours. We own guns for hunting, pest control, target shooting, or just because we like them, not because we want to form some half-baked civilian militia. Anyone disagree? I have nothing in common with these American nut jobs.
    Sounds like you don't know many American gun owners. I know a lot of American gun owners personally and I am trying to think of one that is a "nut job" and can't. A number a years ago a firearms rights group did some research into the violent crime rate for those that have a licence to carry firearms(i.e. concealed carry) in my state and in that group of over 1 million, best they could discover was the violent crime rate for that group of adults was 0.000%.

    You seem to be in denial that government is confiscating weapons and disarming the population. You say you are sick of reading this stuff but yet that is exactly that is going on. Yes the government is confiscating guns. Is there some fairy tale reason why? I'd like to hear your reasons you think your government is doing this right now.
    Ryan, A330driver, Sako851 and 2 others like this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
    Sounds like you don't know many American gun owners. I know a lot of American gun owners personally and I am trying to think of one that is a "nut job" and can't. A number a years ago a firearms rights group did some research into the violent crime rate for those that have a licence to carry firearms(i.e. concealed carry) in my state and in that group of over 1 million, best they could discover was the violent crime rate for that group of adults was 0.000%.

    You seem to be in denial that government is confiscating weapons and disarming the population. You say you are sick of reading this stuff but yet that is exactly that is going on. Yes the government is confiscating guns. Is there some fairy tale reason why? I'd like to hear your reasons you think your government is doing this right now.

    I lived on Long Island, NY for a little while and knew quite a few gun owners. They were nice, normal people, but so what? I didn't criticise American gun owners, I criticised American nut jobs. New Zealand has a different history and culture from the USA. There is no collective paranoia that our government is coming to get us, nor a woefully out-of-date written constitution that guarantees the right to bear arms. If you think New Zealanders view gun ownership as "necessary to the security of a free state", then you just don't understand our country.

    I am not in denial that the government is confiscating guns, it's happening. Why are they doing it? It's pretty simple. They believe that it will make New Zealand a safer place. Do I agree with what they are doing? No. Urbanised, left-leaning politicians have no understanding of shooting, or the outdoors, so gun control looks like the right thing to do. It's a pattern repeated the world over. Like many of those on the left, their heart is in the right place, but their head is not.
    distant stalker likes this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB View Post
    Why are they doing it? It's pretty simple. They believe that it will make New Zealand a safer place.
    Yeah but unfortunately passing this law without proper expertise consultation can and will result in making NZ less safe. Therein lies what motives are/were there? They were told from the start that this has the potential to back fire badly. But continually ignore any logical input from real experts.

    A good place to start would be to separate our laws from the US and any other country, we are all quite different. But the same tactics and "reasons" have been applied to all western countries for more stringent gun-control. Not a coincidence. There is a source & it isn't a conspiracy theory.

    NZ signed us on to the International Small Arms Control Standards.

    ISACS. Read the standards. Carefully.
    Steve123, MB, OPS-4 and 1 others like this.

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    All good points Sasquatch, I don't disagree with anything you have written.

  11. #11
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    The disappointing thing about that post is that it's clearly biased, notably:

    - The population was based on the 2016 figure, the gun deaths in 2016 was closer to 38,500.
    - The way they come up with their percentages is wrong, it should be rated on the number of all deaths not the entire population, and since the average lifespan in USA is 78 years then it brings the percentage to 0.91% of all deaths. Even if you stuck with a per capita figure you'd have to either use the total figure of gun deaths over over the average lifespan or multiply it by the average lifespan to come up with a figure regarding how much of the population is effected in their lifetime.
    - His breakdown ignores the law enforcement deaths that were justified but occurred due to illegal firearms being presented, because of this he dismisses those figures all together.
    - It addresses deaths only, not serious injuries as well, which I imagine would raise the percentage of people effected significantly.
    - He attempts to use other problems as a way of minimising a specific problem, this is a fallacy which is used too often in the gun debate, it completely ignores the critical difference of intent.

    The most disappointing thing is that people don't look at these sorts of things objectively, if you presented that post at any kind of intelligent debate you'd get laughed off of the stage, especially regarding the last half of it.

    If you put our stats beside the USA you'll soon realise that they are hardly an example to follow, although in my opinion I believe that a lot of their gun violence is a result of their culture/attitudes rather than their laws.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB View Post
    I lived on Long Island, NY for a little while and knew quite a few gun owners. They were nice, normal people, but so what? I didn't criticise American gun owners, I criticised American nut jobs. New Zealand has a different history and culture from the USA. There is no collective paranoia that our government is coming to get us, nor a woefully out-of-date written constitution that guarantees the right to bear arms. If you think New Zealanders view gun ownership as "necessary to the security of a free state", then you just don't understand our country.

    I am not in denial that the government is confiscating guns, it's happening. Why are they doing it? It's pretty simple. They believe that it will make New Zealand a safer place. Do I agree with what they are doing? No. Urbanised, left-leaning politicians have no understanding of shooting, or the outdoors, so gun control looks like the right thing to do. It's a pattern repeated the world over. Like many of those on the left, their heart is in the right place, but their head is not.
    Some of the best texts ever written go back thousands of years and the Constitution is far from out of date. The founding fathers were quite brilliant because they knew and understood human behavior. Probably many do not know one of the reasons for the Revolution being triggered was the desire from the UK for gun control and the 1774 Powder Alarm.

    If you knew my personal history I think you would agree I understand NZ as well as you would understand the USA, at a minimum. Yes I think the mindset among gun owners is probably different in that many would see themselves as a subject, not a citizen and as having a privilege, not a right. However that doesn't mean those attitudes cannot change. In fact I think a lot of the angst and range of emotions among Kiwi gun owners over this is confronting the truth of what is going on and either accepting the reality or having difficulty accepting the reality of what has happened and what is coming.

    Among the left in NZ I believe they want the guns because it helps shift the balance of power more in their favor and it's got nothing to do with "making New Zealand safer". Of course they are going to utter whatever feel goody statements they can.
    Moa Hunter likes this.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    Yeah but unfortunately passing this law without proper expertise consultation can and will result in making NZ less safe. Therein lies what motives are/were there? They were told from the start that this has the potential to back fire badly. But continually ignore any logical input from real experts.

    A good place to start would be to separate our laws from the US and any other country, we are all quite different. But the same tactics and "reasons" have been applied to all western countries for more stringent gun-control. Not a coincidence. There is a source & it isn't a conspiracy theory.

    NZ signed us on to the International Small Arms Control Standards.

    ISACS. Read the standards. Carefully.
    Their ham fisted ram it through approach backs up my claim of them just wanting the guns, nothing to do with public safety.

    I think it's going to backfire big time. It will not stop terrorists and will just inflate the illegal gun trade as it did in Australia.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    The disappointing thing about that post is that it's clearly biased, notably:

    - The population was based on the 2016 figure, the gun deaths in 2016 was closer to 38,500.
    - The way they come up with their percentages is wrong, it should be rated on the number of all deaths not the entire population, and since the average lifespan in USA is 78 years then it brings the percentage to 0.91% of all deaths. Even if you stuck with a per capita figure you'd have to either use the total figure of gun deaths over over the average lifespan or multiply it by the average lifespan to come up with a figure regarding how much of the population is effected in their lifetime.
    - His breakdown ignores the law enforcement deaths that were justified but occurred due to illegal firearms being presented, because of this he dismisses those figures all together.
    - It addresses deaths only, not serious injuries as well, which I imagine would raise the percentage of people effected significantly.
    - He attempts to use other problems as a way of minimising a specific problem, this is a fallacy which is used too often in the gun debate, it completely ignores the critical difference of intent.

    The most disappointing thing is that people don't look at these sorts of things objectively, if you presented that post at any kind of intelligent debate you'd get laughed off of the stage, especially regarding the last half of it.

    If you put our stats beside the USA you'll soon realise that they are hardly an example to follow, although in my opinion I believe that a lot of their gun violence is a result of their culture/attitudes rather than their laws.
    The USA has 350 million people, including all the illegals and 50 individual states across several thousand miles so that will always be a harder comparison to make. Most gun violence is in leftist hellhole cities with very strict gun laws so the criminals have guns and everyone else does not, at least legally. As long as you stay out of places like the south side of Chicago, Pomona, California or Detroit at 2 AM in the morning and you are not mixed up in drugs, you really don't have to worry about much. It's no different in NZ or Australia, there are places and areas various friends have cautioned me about to avoid or take more care if I was dumb enough to hang around in such places.
    A330driver likes this.

  15. #15
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    +1....what he said

    Quote..In fact I think a lot of the angst and range of emotions among Kiwi gun owners over this is confronting the truth of what is going on and either accepting the reality or having difficulty accepting the reality of what has happened and what is coming.
    wanneroo likes this.
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