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Thread: What is the nature of government?

  1. #1
    Semper excretia Ryan's Avatar
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    What is the nature of government?

    It is the negation of freedom.

    It is a monopoly of force in a designated geographic area. When elected officials fear that their base is slipping, they will feel the need to do something anything that will let them claim to be enhancing safety. Trampling liberty works for that odious purpose. Hence a decree commanding obedience, promising safety and threatening punishment.
    Tommy, sightpicture and Finnwolf like this.
    "I would rather suffer under imperfect freedom, than languish under perfect control".

  2. #2
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    Perhaps so; but the essential intent of common man communities was to appoint trusted "trustees" to protect the interests of community members in a fair and equitable manner.
    The present government does not resemble the promises made to its electorate in order to be elected to supposedly protect the interests of its community (NZ) and thus causes men to question who actually controls our representatives; and us; and to what purposes.
    Maca49 and Tommy like this.
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  3. #3
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    No one can dispute the necessity for direction of a mass of people. However, how that works out needs to be entirely questionable by the mass of people that the government is supposed to be representative of. Democracy is the least worst form of imposition on the masses, (a well known quote I believe), that imposition tempered by some form of accountability both in process (Courts and Justice system) and by review in election.

    They say that we get what we deserve and I frankly have sympathy for that view. If our govt lacks in competence and integrity, its unlikely that the populace exhibits a higher level in the way that it behaves.

    So we get what we deserve, last election good management was abandoned in preference to good intentions, promised bribes and inexperience, and what has transpired to be gross incompetence. Its our fault....

    What this power hungry bunch of parasites believes is that they are directors of outcomes on the basis of their ideological intentions. But lets not review the actual outcomes, that would be just too embarrassing.

    They neither understand that leadership requires buy in, the people have to be incentivised to go with you and not disincentivized by treating you comtemptuously. They need to understand that making rules is not the answer to problems and that outcomes that do not fit with intentions, ideology or promise need to be identified, evaluated and then accountability for the failure needs to be assigned to those responsible.

    That was another promise wasn't it? The most transparent and accountable govt ever?
    dogmatix, rupert, Ryan and 8 others like this.

  4. #4
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    I do wish I had the ability to significantly change NZ Governance to true ethical integrity; but I am not the right man at this time, sadly. I wish I knew who is.
    Summer grass
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    Matsuo Basho.

  5. #5
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    We are a way past expecting performance, integrity and outcomes on the basis of trust.

    Independant audit of outcomes is the only way we can elevate competence I believe. Just watch the pollies line up for that, the self serving pricks...

  6. #6
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    When a majority of one or two has the power to modify an Act or regulation to suit an agenda or hide facts from the public then we are in trouble. Parliamentary votes requiring a 70% majority of the entire house ofcrepresentatives would recreate well founded decision making and state departmental accountability to the voting citizenry would follow naturally as a mattet of course. What is preventing this?
    mikee, Moa Hunter and outlander like this.
    Summer grass
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  7. #7
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    Transparency?
    Phil_H likes this.

  8. #8
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    Nah nothing would get done at all under that sort of requirement given partizan political representation. Simply make outcomes an evaluated part of governance and insist on the same level of accountability as Company Directors have for business.

    That'll sort them...
    outlander likes this.

  9. #9
    C404 C404's Avatar
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    So does this mean we have to put up with the giggling Cinduh-rella making up shit as she goes along?
    it is like a kid in a car, " look I am driving by myself now"
    And in the background the Stasi look on and assume their own take on things.

    very scary times. I remember when we had politicians we didnt like but deferred to their age and experience in real world politics.
    mikee and outlander like this.

  10. #10
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
    No one can dispute the necessity for direction of a mass of people. However, how that works out needs to be entirely questionable by the mass of people that the government is supposed to be representative of. Democracy is the least worst form of imposition on the masses, (a well known quote I believe), that imposition tempered by some form of accountability both in process (Courts and Justice system) and by review in election.

    They say that we get what we deserve and I frankly have sympathy for that view. If our govt lacks in competence and integrity, its unlikely that the populace exhibits a higher level in the way that it behaves.

    So we get what we deserve, last election good management was abandoned in preference to good intentions, promised bribes and inexperience, and what has transpired to be gross incompetence. Its our fault....

    What this power hungry bunch of parasites believes is that they are directors of outcomes on the basis of their ideological intentions. But lets not review the actual outcomes, that would be just too embarrassing.

    They neither understand that leadership requires buy in, the people have to be incentivised to go with you and not disincentivized by treating you comtemptuously. They need to understand that making rules is not the answer to problems and that outcomes that do not fit with intentions, ideology or promise need to be identified, evaluated and then accountability for the failure needs to be assigned to those responsible.

    That was another promise wasn't it? The most transparent and accountable govt ever?
    They're all tarred with the same brush. Nowadays they tend to get there by 'popularity' rather than rational solutions. Things have changed with more media attention, going more on 'appearance' and 'performance'. They all have a habit of selling off our public assets to their mates at bargain basement prices when markets are low and only their mates have the money to buy.
    outlander likes this.
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  11. #11
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    A more optimistic response would be that government is meant to curb the worst of the human condition. Greed, lack of empathy and a propensity for violence when the very thin veneer of civilization rubs off.

    Whether or not it does that effectively is another thing
    Moa Hunter likes this.

  12. #12
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
    Nah nothing would get done at all under that sort of requirement given partizan political representation. Simply make outcomes an evaluated part of governance and insist on the same level of accountability as Company Directors have for business.

    That'll sort them...
    I think that getting rid of political parties would be good. The representative should be there to represent those that voted them in. Rather, we have a system where they vote on bills along a party line, so they are voting for their party rather than the people.
    Moa Hunter likes this.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  13. #13
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    The role of government is to provide at a community level for things that are beyond what companies and individuals to provide. The next level is to provide an environment for both companies and individuals to prosper. Over taxation does not achieve any of these things.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  14. #14
    NRT
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    Jacinda handles the big occasion well for her age she shows empathy well

    Sent from my TA-1025 using Tapatalk
    gadgetman and Phil_H like this.

  15. #15
    Member Mr Browning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidney View Post
    We are a way past expecting performance, integrity and outcomes on the basis of trust.

    Independant audit of outcomes is the only way we can elevate competence I believe. Just watch the pollies line up for that, the self serving pricks...
    This government doesnt govern on trust, it governs on fear.

    The thing about socialist governments is that they think they are the most important and want more government, not less. They really dont care about the people, they only care about retaining government and increasing it. Everything they say they are doing for the people, is actually for themselves.

    Why are we in lockdown? Not so we dont pass the virus on to our friends and associates, but we dont end up passing it on to them.
    Why are cops arming themselves? Not to make the public safer, but to make themselves safer.

    Government has forgotten who they are, they are no longer servants of the public, they are an elite group who are above the people, they dont work for the people, they have made it so the people are working for them.

    Government needs a reset button.
    gadgetman, Ryan, Sasquatch and 2 others like this.
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