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Thread: Whose biodiversity is it anyway

  1. #1
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Whose biodiversity is it anyway

    An interesting article this one.

    https://thedig.nz/biodiversity/whose...-is-it-anyway/


    @R93 you are famous now

  2. #2
    kw
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    I sure know, its appears not to be mine.

  3. #3
    MB
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    Interesting article. Nicely written. Obviously, I don't agree, but there are no rights/wrongs, it just depends on what you value. Some consistency would be good though. I'm sure humans have the biggest impact on biodiversity. Shall we get rid of those too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg View Post

    @R93 you are famous now
    That is a warning to be a bit careful about what we say, and how we say it on the forum. Only write what you would be happy to hear read back to you in court...

  5. #5
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    was suprised at only 65,000 hunters???? fresh water fising folk need to be included in that number as well as game bird shooters. after all trout,phesant and mallards are introduced too.
    outdoorlad likes this.

  6. #6
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    no soy...no coffee...manuka tea only....no cabbage,lettuce,carrots,potatoe,kumara,peas,lental s,wheat,oats,hops,barley,grapes.....they are all introduced...oops forgot tobacco and electric puha...take those last 5 items off the list of ok and on the list of must be erradicated and see just how quickly the support for the twigs n twitters brigade fades..... no sheep either so they cant have home spun cardigans...
    Woody, MB and xtightg like this.

  7. #7
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    It certainly is: “That’s just rubbish,” says Kevin Hague, chief executive of Forest & Bird. “The logical consequence of Jamie Steer’s idea is the ongoing homogenisation of global biodiversity. Hague sees a shift in values among New Zealanders, from a “colonising mission — replacing our indigenous biodiversity with a version of Europe’s” — to valuing native biodiversity over introduced. He says that shift might be a function of our search for nationhood: “Maybe some of its resurgence has also been associated with Māori renaissance, and the sense of us as an independent nation, not simply hanging onto the apron strings of mother England.”

    But here’s a thing: by best estimate, there are 65,000 “big game” hunters in New Zealand.(2) Almost 350,000 people do pilates.(3) A million people swim. The natural environment — the ancestral seat of Māoritanga and collective heritage of 4.8 million other New Zealanders — pays a heavy price for the blood sport of a small minority. That raises a fundamental question of democracy that any discussion on the future of biodiversity — if it’s being diligent — needs to address.

    So homogenisation is inherently 'bad'...when it comes to species other than us humans. But minority sports such as hunting should be banned because they don't serve the interests of the majority (I.e people need to be MORE homogeneous?)

    Uhm. Okay.

    So rather than allow nature to evolve (as it's done since the dawn of time), due to constant forms of stress (climatic, geological, predatory species etc) - we've now got to turn it into some type of 'guilt wash'. A place we can consciously enter from time to time to exfoliate ourselves of the grime our society has embedded within our pores.

    "Ah...isn't that just lovely. No immigrants".

    "Ah...environmental harmony"

    *Meanwhile we're building more houses, highways, and bringing more people into the country*

    Furthermore, I disagree on the assertion that the majority of New Zealanders are paying a heavy price for the enjoyment of a small few (hunters). The majority of New Zealanders (and this will only become more pronounced as we head into the future) are city dwellers; or at best, road trip warriors. They wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a dandelion or a mountain lily. Nor, I assume, would they particularly care. Most people would find their local park 'wild' enough! What a pompous notion - that a few tahr or deer are contaminating our mountains, and encroaching upon people's enjoyment of the outdoors.

    No. This is a game of politics between two minorities. And only one seems willing to make compromises.
    Last edited by Frodo; 31-08-2019 at 11:45 AM.

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    I agree with the 'no immigrants' part but i dont think they are talking about the same immigrants i am
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    In reality, there are probably just as many (if not fewer) proponents of a 'cleansed' environment, as there are hunters. But unlike us, they can exaggerate the size of their demographic based on the assumption that more native animals = is in 'everybody's' interests. It's a non argument. Of course more natives is a good thing. But just like the firearm situation, people are blind to the underlying (corrupt) principles which guide these movements. The end result(s) may be favourable; at least on the surface; but the supporting ideologies are subjective, at best.

    More natives is a good thing IF it occurs naturally and reflects a positive shift in our net impact on the environment. More natives is NOT a good thing if it means we undermine thousands of people's lifestyles and kill millions of animals we originally liberated on our soil for our own benefit.

    And yes - I'm biased. But so is everyone else.
    veitnamcam likes this.

  10. #10
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    ok how about this one.....they think they can rid the country of possums by 2050.....yet they cant get rid of gorse...it doesnt move,cant hide in the daytime and come out at night...its highly visable and easy to kill....heck they cant even get rid of gorse hedges from roadsides.

  11. #11
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    And meanwhile the CoL plant another billion pines trees.... cos they don’t like farmers and cows. Biodiversity arguement is very selective.
    And when it comes to immigrants every human here in NZ is exactly that, whether your forefathers arrived 100 years ago or 500 you are an immigrant. So get off your fuckn soap box.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodo View Post
    It certainly is: “That’s just rubbish,” says Kevin Hague, chief executive of Forest & Bird. “The logical consequence of Jamie Steer’s idea is the ongoing homogenisation of global biodiversity. Hague sees a shift in values among New Zealanders, from a “colonising mission — replacing our indigenous biodiversity with a version of Europe’s” — to valuing native biodiversity over introduced. He says that shift might be a function of our search for nationhood: “Maybe some of its resurgence has also been associated with Māori renaissance, and the sense of us as an independent nation, not simply hanging onto the apron strings of mother England.”

    But here’s a thing: by best estimate, there are 65,000 “big game” hunters in New Zealand.(2) Almost 350,000 people do pilates.(3) A million people swim. The natural environment — the ancestral seat of Māoritanga and collective heritage of 4.8 million other New Zealanders — pays a heavy price for the blood sport of a small minority. That raises a fundamental question of democracy that any discussion on the future of biodiversity — if it’s being diligent — needs to address.

    So homogenisation is inherently 'bad'...when it comes to species other than us humans. But minority sports such as hunting should be banned because they don't serve the interests of the majority (I.e people need to be MORE homogeneous?)

    Uhm. Okay.

    So rather than allow nature to evolve (as it's done since the dawn of time), due to constant forms of stress (climatic, geological, predatory species etc) - we've now got to turn it into some type of 'guilt wash'. A place we can consciously enter from time to time to exfoliate ourselves of the grime our society has embedded within our pores.

    "Ah...isn't that just lovely. No immigrants".

    "Ah...environmental harmony"

    *Meanwhile we're building more houses, highways, and bringing more people into the country*

    Furthermore, I disagree on the assertion that the majority of New Zealanders are paying a heavy price for the enjoyment of a small few (hunters). The majority of New Zealanders (and this will only become more pronounced as we head into the future) are city dwellers; or at best, road trip warriors. They wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a dandelion or a mountain lily. Nor, I assume, would they particularly care. Most people would find their local park 'wild' enough! What a pompous notion - that a few tahr or deer are contaminating our mountains, and encroaching upon people's enjoyment of the outdoors.

    No. This is a game of politics between two minorities. And only one seems willing to make compromises.
    And by Kevin Hague's logic, where minorities should be ignored, then there is no need for the country to pander to vegans, the blind, homosexuals, veterans, ...

    Yes, in Lala land. Now if we must get rid of introduced species, then we must go also. Oh, and I suppose we would have to reintroduce the species that we have made extinct. The big thing is that the ecosystem has always been evolving and changing as new species are introduced from the west, generally being blown here, whether adrift or on the wing. So exactly what version/stage of this ever changing system do we try to 'fix' into place for ever more?
    veitnamcam, Micky Duck, MB and 2 others like this.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micky Duck View Post
    ok how about this one.....they think they can rid the country of possums by 2050.....yet they cant get rid of gorse...it doesnt move,cant hide in the daytime and come out at night...its highly visable and easy to kill....heck they cant even get rid of gorse hedges from roadsides.
    This!!!!!!!!
    @Frodo that was one of the best posts I have ever read. Nature is entirely foreign to them and you nailed it. Its has been turned into some kind of "guilt wash".

    So we are going to freeze evolution and through all the government resources available, at stopping nature and freezing evolution in its tracks. We are going to do this by the largest allocation of poison to the natural environment in history. As @Micky Duck rightly points out, where did this sudden pest control omnipotence come from?

    Meanwhile their fiat money pays no yield at all and they charge you to lend it to them, and I made 25% on my savings in the last 12 months with no counter party risk.

    This is just peak silliness. Reality is already poking its nose over the horizon.
    `
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  14. #14
    MB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodo View Post
    Furthermore, I disagree on the assertion that the majority of New Zealanders are paying a heavy price for the enjoyment of a small few (hunters). The majority of New Zealanders (and this will only become more pronounced as we head into the future) are city dwellers; or at best, road trip warriors. They wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a dandelion or a mountain lily. Nor, I assume, would they particularly care. Most people would find their local park 'wild' enough! What a pompous notion - that a few tahr or deer are contaminating our mountains, and encroaching upon people's enjoyment of the outdoors.

    No. This is a game of politics between two minorities. And only one seems willing to make compromises.
    A very good point well made.


    Quote Originally Posted by gadgetman View Post
    And by Kevin Hague's logic, where minorities should be ignored, then there is no need for the country to pander to vegans, the blind, homosexuals, veterans ...
    Also very good. I hope you both get quoted in the next article.

  15. #15
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    Yep. No more garden centers, tropical fish, barley, swedes, fruit trees, beer or yeast, wool, milk, wharves, airports. People like Hansford want to take NZ back to pre 1840; seriously. NZ would never have been developed if these extreme ideals were followed. (I wont even mention mining
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