.223 Remington help

Hi guys. Help please?!
I have a 2 x Tikka T3 Hunters; 1 x .223 with a 1-8" twist. Bought new.
1 x 7-08 bought used.
I cannot get the 223 to group well past 50metres!
History:
After deliberating between 22-250 and 223, I bought the 223 as my varminting rifle. The theory was that my deer shooting with 7-08, snap and long range, would improve as I shoot my almost exactly the same 223 much more often. Pretty much straight away, I took the 223 to Arthur Cleland to have it threaded for suppressor (not sure about workmanship quality of recrowning). Also bought a used MAE suppressor for it.
I've shot about 250 rounds through it now, so is well broken in. But while I get excited about shooting into the same hole at 25m, as soon as I extend the range beyond 60m, I can't even get the holes touching. And at 100m plus, it's a lottery as to how many inches from the bullseye the POI will be, especially between cold and hot barrel.

Naturally, I've tried multiple factory loads including Federal PS 55gn, Fusion 62gn, Belmont 55gn, Winchester 64gn, Winchester & Remington Match 55gn. Fusion 62gn was the most consistently accurate, but only at short ranges.

I'm wanting to shoot bunnies at 200m+, and surely this is possible with this rifle?

Remove suppressor...Same result (although very different POI)

Other shooters, all competent, same result.

Wondering if my scope was faulty, I've even bought a brand new Leupold VX3i 4-14 scope for it and mounted it carefully, ensuring she's tight..same result.

Before anyone asks the obvious question- can I shoot? A couple of weeks ago, I took both rifles out to my mate's benchrest range and shot 15mm groups with my 7-08 with a 3-9x scope at 160m. Yet I couldn't shoot better than 1.5" with the 223, using a 4-12x scope. Today I was shooting with the new Leupold on 14x, same result with 55, 62 & 64gn ammo.

Obviously reloading may help considerably, but what else may be wrong?

Bullet weights still too low for 1-8" twist?
Recrowning required?
Faulty receiver, need truing?
Is wind REALLY that big an influence on these high velocity .224 projectiles???
If so,anyone want a .223? Because I may as well stick to my old .22 LR and get closer.
???




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it was only with so 50 or 55 grain projectiles, I would have said they were over spinning and that could be causing an issue.
Are you shooting from a bipod and loading it too much?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

I have the same rifle and best group I get is from the 75 grain Hornady, light ones are like a mad woman's shit!
Tried some Remington 65 grain on Sat with some success, is a work in progress I think!:O_O:

Yes, shooting from bipod, but usually do ok and remember I shoot well with e act same setup in 7-08.

What size groups you achieving with 75gn @Maca49


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Incidentally @Maca49, I don't know what a mad woman's shit looks like, but I'm guessing it's kind of loose and splattery


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My 1:8 Tikka even shoots 40gr, 53gr, 55gr, 69gr and 75gr bullets fine.

Did you have the barrel shortened, hence the re-crown?
Arthur Cleland threaded my rifle (no re-crown was required) and I've had no problems.

Are you using the factory Tikka rings?
I always did and had no problem with them for years, but after changing scopes on the rifle they mysteriously went to crap and I replaced them, I use Talley lightweight rings now and they are great.

I'd take the scope off and remove rifle from the stock, make sure that the action goes back into the recoil lug correctly. Try non-Tikka factory rings and make sure the screws are done up just enough, usually only 20 in/lbs which is bugger all!

Anything you try leave the suppressor off and only put it on once you've got it sorted, try and isolate as many possible problems as possible, it could also be the scope so could try changing that with one you know is good, or put try the scope on a rifle you know is good.

Within 1" circle at 100 metres off bipod 3 shots, I want to shoot some bunnies with mine, might have to buy 1:12 as well!:O_O: @Happy maybe able to help you?

How does it shoot with a cleaned barrel? If it groups tightly when cleaned and starts to spread the more you shoot, I would have a look down the barrel.
I have have a very bad experience after some Smithing (threading)was done on an unfired brand new rifle!

give the barrel a bloody good clean, right back to bare metal

take the scope off and re mount it

take the action from the stock and double check its seated on the lug

also it depends on your definition of accurate, just because it doesnt shoot as well as your other rifles? an inch is a dead rabbit easy no?

No noticeable difference between clean barrel or after 30 shots.

Original Tikka allow rings on both rifles. No stretch marks and have been careful not to overtighten.
Might have to inspect recoil lug and change rings as process of elimination.
Very frustrating!
Lost a Sika hind in winter when shouldn't have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am not an expert, i never been and i think i will never be as i think i learn something everyday.
My opinion/experience is, I had a Tikka 223 in 1:8" and it shot everything i put through, Hornady's 55gn soft points - 75gn "match", the worse groups was about 1.2" at 100mt or yd, the thing about 1:8" twist is that it will shoot heavier projectiles that will give better/less "wind drift" at long distances for been heavier.
My suggestion is, ask for another gunsmith opinion depending what he say you cut and re-crown or may just re-barrel the thing all together. Dramatic and maybe extreme but should work.

M

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scoped

give the barrel a bloody good clean, right back to bare metal

take the scope off and re mount it

take the action from the stock and double check its seated on the lug

also it depends on your definition of accurate, just because it doesnt shoot as well as your other rifles? an inch is a dead rabbit easy no?

---

There's dead rabbits, dying a slow and painful death, and dead rabbits from head shots. I'm capable of the latter so I need a rifle that is too. I should also be able to compete with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lots of comments about tikka ring quality but they hold up on 300WM's etc with no issue!

I havent had any issues with Arthurs workmanship, id try some 69gr sierra match kings or 75 amax and see if that makes a difference

Before you spend any coin, I have new take-off tikka rings and I might also think some Warne ones that you are welcome to give a try to confirm if yours are an issue!

Thanks for the offer @Fireflite, but I'm actually hoping @Beetroot or @Maca49 might be keen to meet up at a range and let me try their rifles to see how I shoot their setup???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All good! Another option I'm willing to offer (lots of trust!) is a VX3 in warne QD rings to try off a 270wsm tikka. It will fit straight on in 10 sec.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fireflite

All good! Another option I'm willing to offer (lots of trust!) is a VX3 in warne QD rings to try off a 270wsm tikka. It will fit straight on in 10 sec.

---

A VERY generous and trusting offer mate, and if you lived within a bull's roar (same island) I'd probably take you up on it. So I'll decline...Thanks anyway [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Parrallax setting on scope and using highest magnifaction could be a factor.

Action bolts torqued correctly? Nothing stuck (dirt, twigs etc) between action and stock?

No disrespect intended to Arthur Cleland but I sent two rifles to him at the same time to be shortened, crowned and threaded, and my brother did one at the same time (so three guns) and all three were botched. Thats about 15 years ago and I would never send another gun to him.

Your root cause analysis is a process of elimination, but don't assume that the crowning is true and correct - get it checked as part of the process.

Unfortunately I'm starting to think the threading job is the culprit [emoji57] Pretty much tried everything else I can think of, aside from heavy bullets, but should be able to shoot well even with 55gn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arthur's workmanship was below my expectations from a well known smith. Even left burring on barrel and thread was rough and agricultural.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Some pics of the crown and threading job would be handy.

Will only take 10 minutes for a decent machinist or gunsmith to centre up your barrel in the lathe and redo the crown, sometimes it only takes a few spins by hand just to tidy things up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

What's Arthur's opinion on it?

---

Haven't asked for it. I'd never use his services again so see no benefit in consulting him. Happy to pay for another smith to assess and repair though



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Hunt4Life, like the guys have pointed out I guess it's a process of elimination. I have had several Tikka's over the years. One in 708 like yours that was very accurate and one currently in 223 with a 1:12 barrel.
It has been shortened and a suppressor and shoots very well ( 5 shot , 15mm group at 100mtrs ) Check the recoil lug for sure but like you I suspect the gunsmithing work could be the culprit.
I have used Dean Maisey in Tauranga on several occasions and he has always done a top job. The man really knows his stuff so that is who I would use if work is required.
Wind can play a huge role in 224 projectiles but I would imagine you have shot it in varying conditions..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunt4life

Haven't asked for it. I'd never use his services again so see no benefit in consulting him. Happy to pay for another smith to assess and repair though



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Give him the opportunity to examine it. You have the consumer guarantee act (cga) on your side, but if you go elsewhere that options gone.
Front him with it and the targets be reasonable and hopefully it gets sorted, if not mention the cga, that can be suprisingly effective. If no sucess the disputes tribuneral is your next step.
Not saying its the case here but too many crap businesses keep going because they initally fob off complaints and the complainent didn't follow through.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by viper

Hey Hunt4Life, like the guys have pointed out I guess it's a process of elimination. I have had several Tikka's over the years. One in 708 like yours that was very accurate and one currently in 223 with a 1:12 barrel.
It has been shortened and a suppressor and shoots very well ( 5 shot , 15mm group at 100mtrs ) Check the recoil lug for sure but like you I suspect the gunsmithing work could be the culprit.
I have used Dean Maisey in Tauranga on several occasions and he has always done a top job. The man really knows his stuff so that is who I would use if work is required.
Wind can play a huge role in 224 projectiles but I would imagine you have shot it in varying conditions..

---

Great. Thanks @viper


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Send it to Friwi at DPT. Get it recrowned so that takes that out of the picture. When you get it back drop us a PM and I ll meet you at our range.
. Is it a wooden stocked one ? . Mine is the lower twist rate so only use 55gr but it doesn't change POI with any brands.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

But you are happy to bag him in public, when the issue may not be his doing?
Did the rifle shoot ok before you took it to him?

---

Happy to discuss in public that his workmanship was sub-standard. Just as many people do on here or in any situation regarding the quality of anyone's product or service. This is not a thread about his threading job, as I said, I wouldn't use him again anyway.
The rifle shot about the same as it does now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

What's Arthur's opinion on it?

---

I've got to say - it seems a bit wrong that this guy's work is being called into question without him having been given the chance to inspect it and rectify it if required.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunt4life

Arthur's workmanship was below my expectations from a well known smith. Even left burring on barrel and thread was rough and agricultural.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

If your not happy with the job go back to him and say so first. Did you shoot it before the threading job? If so how do the groups compare.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetawa

If your not happy with the job go back to him and say so first. Did you shoot it before the threading job? If so how do the groups compare.

---

Beat me to it. The question that was just begging to be asked.

Also, I too will not use Arthur's services again but for me issue wasn't quality of workmanship. Having said that, he still has to be given the opportunity to at least discuss the issue.

I don't think he does actually...unless another gunsmith confirms the threading job is at fault. If that happens, then he is liable for ruining velocity capability etc as we'll probably need to cut and shorten the barrel.
Anyway, as I've said already, I didn't set out to slag Arthur off, and I'm not interested in an explanation about why he thought it was as ok to do a rough job on my brand new barrel. Whether his work is the cause of poor grouping is only one of several potential causes which I'm going to need to eliminate one at a time.
I'm not interested in anyone's PC opinion about whether Arthur should be consulted. If a plumber did a crap job fixing my toilet, I wouldn't consult him again, ever, for anything. Same diff.
I'll take the good advice some have given above and work through it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did he shorten the barrel and recrown or just thread it? What was the groups before and after the work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hunt4life

I don't think he does actually...unless another gunsmith confirms the threading job is at fault. If that happens, then he is liable for ruining velocity capability etc as we'll probably need to cut and shorten the barrel.
Anyway, as I've said already, I didn't set out to slag Arthur off, and I'm not interested in an explanation about why he thought it was as ok to do a rough job on my brand new barrel. Whether his work is the cause of poor grouping is only one of several potential causes which I'm going to need to eliminate one at a time.
I'm not interested in anyone's PC opinion about whether Arthur should be consulted. If a plumber did a crap job fixing my toilet, I wouldn't consult him again, ever, for anything. Same diff.
I'll take the good advice some have given above and work through it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

in
It's not a PC opinion, if you took this to another gunsmith worth his salt the first thing he would say is " have you given the other guy a chance to correct it". Also if the job is that bad why didn't you address it with Arthur on pick up. Know this off the original problem raised but it wasn't us who started slagging the gunsmith.