Thread: 3 shot groups are useless!

Originally Posted by gimp

In the Olympics Of Missing The Point, you boys would be gold and silver in the Long Jump Over Reading Comprehension

You write too much comprehension over thinking yr groupies.

Originally Posted by gimp

Just wait til I start on load development.......

Have to get a reloaders website set up for gimp.Not enough gigs around here.lols

Originally Posted by Trout

You write too much comprehension over thinking yr groupies.

Hard case. There is an expression that "sometimes the helicopter needs to land".

It's all good fun . . . Poking a bear sharpens everyone up, especially the slowest runners!

a year or tw oago a forum member "royal twelve" got online as he was having trouble shooting any sort of group...
seen as though he was local to me,I organised to meet him at unofficial local spot suitable to fire rifle..his suggestion of location..driving there I thought to self..I dont know this person and are driving to meet him with rifle in wagon..dodgy much??
anyway first up I got him to fire my 7.62x39mm with subsonic load...just cause I could and he worried about flinch... then fired a super,no problem.
next gave him my .223 and he got down on mound to shoot.."uumm what are you doing hugging yourself?" was my comment when his left hand went onto toe of stock..."hold the bloody stock like its meant to be"..he dutifly did so and proceeded to shoot a tiny under inch group of 6 rounds (all my rifle holds) at hundred yards...... whats this got to do with anything you ask?? those six rounds.....were randoms from my ammo drawer 4 different loads between 50-55grns young Jasper went away now KNOWING he could shoot well.shooting how he had been with his .22magnum his groups were closer to 3" in size
mission accomplished he KNEW he could do it and soon after reported doing so with his .308 no worries.
SOME rifles are like this and at hundy will poke all sorts of loads into same group..all be it a weird shaped group...my old 270 put ten different loads into playing card sized group...it always did it....seems the howa does the same.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

a year or tw oago a forum member "royal twelve" got online as he was having trouble shooting any sort of group...
seen as though he was local to me,I organised to meet him at unofficial local spot suitable to fire rifle..his suggestion of location..driving there I thought to self..I dont know this person and are driving to meet him with rifle in wagon..dodgy much??
anyway first up I got him to fire my 7.62x39mm with subsonic load...just cause I could and he worried about flinch... then fired a super,no problem.
next gave him my .223 and he got down on mound to shoot.."uumm what are you doing hugging yourself?" was my comment when his left hand went onto toe of stock..."hold the bloody stock like its meant to be"..he dutifly did so and proceeded to shoot a tiny under inch group of 6 rounds (all my rifle holds) at hundred yards...... whats this got to do with anything you ask?? those six rounds.....were randoms from my ammo drawer 4 different loads between 50-55grns young Jasper went away now KNOWING he could shoot well.shooting how he had been with his .22magnum his groups were closer to 3" in size
mission accomplished he KNEW he could do it and soon after reported doing so with his .308 no worries.
SOME rifles are like this and at hundy will poke all sorts of loads into same group..all be it a weird shaped group...my old 270 put ten different loads into playing card sized group...it always did it....seems the howa does the same.

Hey MD, one of the main reasons I'm persevering with the B14 223 is that it throws everything I've put through it at near enough to point of aim at 100 to easily take wallabies and goats to 250M. Meaning I can use any ammo (with a suitable projectile) for a lot of hunting. Do you (MD I mean) recall your comment on its early 3 shot groups, yes they were pretty poor, but aggregated with other ammo at least there was still a group of sorts - call it minute of wallaby.

It's now shooting 10 shot groups very close to MOA, and I'm sure I'll Crack it (consistently) in due course. And then if I chose I can legitimately sell it as "an accurate rifle, shooting MOA"

Originally Posted by Tentman

Hey MD, one of the main reasons I'm persevering with the B14 223 is that it throws everything I've put through it at near enough to point of aim at 100 to easily take wallabies and goats to 250M. Meaning I can use any ammo (with a suitable projectile) for a lot of hunting. Do you (MD I mean) recall your comment on its early 3 shot groups, yes they were pretty poor, but aggregated with other ammo at least there was still a group of sorts - call it minute of wallaby.

It's now shooting 10 shot groups very close to MOA, and I'm sure I'll Crack it (consistently) in due course. And then if I chose I can legitimately sell it as "an accurate rifle, shooting MOA"

What about your 1:8 CZ? Thats the one that interests me.

Originally Posted by Roarless20

If you shoot any 3 shot groups @Tentman is going to hunt you down and preach at your for days!

And don't you dare show any gong groups on a gong that is too big or a group off center plate, even if you are shooting to test precision and not accuracy!

Mean radius measurements make every shot of value. ..even 3 shot groups. Therefore your thread title isn't precise or accurate...

Personally I feel there's more to be gained by shooting a larger plate rather than a small plate; as long as you are honest with yourself and log every shot placement - better information is gained on a "miss" from plate centre when it's clearly visible rather than a miss off a small plate.

Small dot on big plate=more info.

https://youtu.be/-ZpYFSqukhs?si=YmAuM-tKU95rU-Ja
From 14.48 in this video there's a good point made: if you adjust you POA based on only a few shots you can end up screwing your accuracy. Because when you adjust your scope you're adjusting your group's POI, not the last shot's POI.

He was making another point here (are mils really not fine enough to adjust vs MOA?), but he also illustrates this discussion quite well.

Identify your target beyond all doubt because you never miss (right?) and I'll be missed.

Originally Posted by Tentman

Hey MD, one of the main reasons I'm persevering with the B14 223 is that it throws everything I've put through it at near enough to point of aim at 100 to easily take wallabies and goats to 250M. Meaning I can use any ammo (with a suitable projectile) for a lot of hunting. Do you (MD I mean) recall your comment on its early 3 shot groups, yes they were pretty poor, but aggregated with other ammo at least there was still a group of sorts - call it minute of wallaby.

It's now shooting 10 shot groups very close to MOA, and I'm sure I'll Crack it (consistently) in due course. And then if I chose I can legitimately sell it as "an accurate rifle, shooting MOA"

yip I do recall comment...... in context its still relevant LOL
great you have made progress with rifle n loads...even better you can chuck load in it and just go hunting...a few super accurate cherry picked reloads in top pocket for the longer shots and you have best of both worlds.
happy hunting

I video all my shots, to log each shot poi and especially to catch any misses. Missed shots usually mean a problem with the system and I really want to diagnose and find it.

My Sunday arvo shoot deciding what components to use in the 6CM. All shot at 302m. My 223 and 6.5prc were shot to use time cooling between 6cm groups.
And to verify their loads against the new garmin chronograph. All are lightweight hunting rifles.



What an awesome piece of kit the garmin chronograph is!
223 group is the first shots of the day 1st cold/fouler is center plate.

Originally Posted by Tahr

What about your 1:8 CZ? Thats the one that interests me.

I gave that to a cousin who was very desirious of its capabilities . . . .

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

a year or tw oago a forum member "royal twelve" got online as he was having trouble shooting any sort of group...

there doesn't seem to be such an account on this forum?

Old forum gimp.