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Thread: Don't be fooled

  1. #1
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
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    Don't be fooled

    So a friend had 2 and a half cases of different 7.62x39 that he was told were now prohibited which distressed him greatly especally seeing the thing that ate it is now gone, and living in the city had little opportunity apart from the local range to dispose of it. Being a generous soul I offered to take it for him and next time he visited he may be able to dispose of the last of it in a controlled manner.
    Being curious by nature I wondered if it was actually prohibited after reading the oic several times.
    Steel jacketed projectiles will attract a magnet so that's no test for a steel core. Out with the hacksaw, only one case had a steel core, the other two were lead cored as shown in photo 1 photo 2 shows what types of ammo the cases hold
    The steel core had a blunt nose but was it "enhanced penetration ammunition"?
    The back of my 12 inch ar 500 gong was to be the test site as the front is pock marked by numpties using their bloody 7mm rem mags, 300 winmag mags and a 300 rum on it at 100 m.
    Range was 25 m and a Hornady soft point included as a control. Photo 3
    Order of shots 1 Hornady 2 steel core norinco 3 other norinco and 4 the blue and white stuff no makers name.
    As you can see the biggest crater was from the Hornady and the least from the steel cored stuff so it's not enhanced penetration ammunition by any stretch.
    I've told him to buy a bisley or howa with some of his Cindy bucks and take it back, but not till I've had a bit of fun.
    Moral don't be conned into surrendering stuff.
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  2. #2
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    ohhh that yellow box stuff goes really GOOD. it was a hot round in .223 and the 7.62x39mm stuff seemed just as potent. interesting test,thankyou for taking time to post results.

  3. #3
    MSL
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    Your AR500 seems a bit soft?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Henry View Post
    So a friend had 2 and a half cases of different 7.62x39 that he was told were now prohibited which distressed him greatly especally seeing the thing that ate it is now gone, and living in the city had little opportunity apart from the local range to dispose of it. Being a generous soul I offered to take it for him and next time he visited he may be able to dispose of the last of it in a controlled manner.
    Being curious by nature I wondered if it was actually prohibited after reading the oic several times.
    Steel jacketed projectiles will attract a magnet so that's no test for a steel core. Out with the hacksaw, only one case had a steel core, the other two were lead cored as shown in photo 1 photo 2 shows what types of ammo the cases hold
    The steel core had a blunt nose but was it "enhanced penetration ammunition"?
    The back of my 12 inch ar 500 gong was to be the test site as the front is pock marked by numpties using their bloody 7mm rem mags, 300 winmag mags and a 300 rum on it at 100 m.
    Range was 25 m and a Hornady soft point included as a control. Photo 3
    Order of shots 1 Hornady 2 steel core norinco 3 other norinco and 4 the blue and white stuff no makers name.
    As you can see the biggest crater was from the Hornady and the least from the steel cored stuff so it's not enhanced penetration ammunition by any stretch.
    I've told him to buy a bisley or howa with some of his Cindy bucks and take it back, but not till I've had a bit of fun.
    Moral don't be conned into surrendering stuff.
    As was my test a few weeks ago. Thanks for posting and I hope that the many shooters with 7.62x39 surplus take heed.

  5. #5
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
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    Its actually ar 450 the ratings are a range in this case brinell 430 to 480. Ar 500 goes from 460 to 530 so 500 can be 450 and vice versa. The test certificate was 460. Starting at a mv of 2350 fps and energy of 1650 ft lbs at 25 yards it hits the plate where its converted into heat. The damage that bullets do to hard plate is due to that kinetic energy being turned into heat and vaporizing the metal that's why you get craters and not dimples. Obviously lead cored bullets are better at energy transfer than soft steel cores.
    I used the rest of the packets in a much less scientific but thoroughly enjoyable fashion.
    Moa Hunter and SixtyTen like this.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Henry View Post
    Its actually ar 450 the ratings are a range in this case brinell 430 to 480. Ar 500 goes from 460 to 530 so 500 can be 450 and vice versa. The test certificate was 460. Starting at a mv of 2350 fps and energy of 1650 ft lbs at 25 yards it hits the plate where its converted into heat. The damage that bullets do to hard plate is due to that kinetic energy being turned into heat and vaporizing the metal that's why you get craters and not dimples. Obviously lead cored bullets are better at energy transfer than soft steel cores.
    I used the rest of the packets in a much less scientific but thoroughly enjoyable fashion.
    Based on what you have just explained, is the test that you conducted a 'fair' test of penetration ability?
    If my work annoys me, I cull them

  7. #7
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
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    I would say yes as the catering of the plate reflects the amount of energy transferred. Naturally I have no access to ballistic armour ceramic plate or similar but energy transfer is just that. I suppose I could have substituted a piece of mild steel but at 50 metres I know the Hornady hunting ammunition pokes a hole in 6 mm plate so it would prove nothing in my opinion. A proper ap round would have poked a hole in the 8mm ar plate

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    since pretty much ammo will penetrate a vehicle and body armour i cant see what the issue is. ok, i sort of agree with the tracer/incendiary ammo ban, a forest fire is bloody nasty and expensive to put out.
    hell even my compound bow could go thru a car door and its occupant. no license required
    Micky Duck likes this.

  9. #9
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    your combound bow will drive an arrow and out penertrate most ammunition in small arms......been proven many times in sandbag or buckets of water etc..the SD of your arrow being so long and thin over comes the advantage of velocity of projectile frrom firearm.....
    but yes what does it really matter,90% of the cheap stuff was being burned into mud banks on defacto ranges or maybe used on rabbits or goats..... where was the huge issue???

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    Fear from the Police and a "need to have control" forced on the population.

    This is the danger of a Police force that does second duty in a national administration role, and why they need to be returned to core duties only.
    gadgetman, outlander and GDMP like this.

  11. #11
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    They would have put absolutely anything in they thought they could get passed the wealthier part of the hunting community. As long as they don't interfere with rich folks sport, they are free to regulate at will.

    The end goal is a sport which is prohibitively expensive for all but the upper class. You only need look overseas. Licenses will cost a fortune, there will be required training that will cost a fortune. Hunting access will be restricted to places that cost a fortune.
    gadgetman and outlander like this.
    “Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic scribbler of a few years back.” John Maynard Keynes

  12. #12
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    And the result is that the taxpayers will get stung for a fortune and the resulting heave out of the then-ruling party will create much kittens amongst the masses followed by a few cycles of massive political and economic instability and we all lose out as a nation. Good one Jacinda and Nash, and NZ Police.
    gadgetman likes this.

  13. #13
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    If the ammo with the steel core is able to be hacksawed, then its not hardened, therefore its not enhanced penetration, therefore its legal.

 

 

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