Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

DPT Black Watch


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30
Like Tree28Likes

Thread: Muzzle brakes, Suppressors, and Accuracy

  1. #1
    Member Puffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Porirua
    Posts
    576

    Muzzle brakes, Suppressors, and Accuracy

    I’d like to hear views on how these devices affect our ability to shoot more accurately.

    Muzzle brakes and suppressors only impact recoil once the bullet has already left the barrel. Setting aside any weight increase and modifications to barrel vibration when these are fitted, improvements in shooting seem then to exist mainly because technique changes in anticipation of a reduced level of recoil and/or change in noise

    So a shooter who can maintain good technique that is independent of the level of recoil (within reason) should be able to get the same results with a bare barrel as with either of these fitted.

    I shoot better groups from the bench with a suppressor or brake because my technique is poor. Any reason why this statement should not be true ? How about that the rifle set-up is more consistent shot-to-shot because of reduced disturbance from recoil ? Any thoughts please ?
    matto1234 likes this.

  2. #2
    Member jim160's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    2,076
    For me with the magnum I had, a muzzle brake made my group size go from 4" to sub inch. Sometimes you need the brake to make it comfortable to shoot. Yet with 308, 30-06 and the like, I don't have an issue and need nothing to improve my shooting.

    I think herbmeister did a study and found muzzle brakes reduce recoil more than suppressors.

    You could well shoot better with suppressor or brake be ause you think you should. For a 308, I don't think it matters. For larger magnums it does.

    Just what I have found anyway.
    Tommy likes this.

  3. #3
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    5,544
    I've lost count of the number of clients who have reported improved accuracy from their rifles after installing one of my Terminator Muzzle Brakes, even on the smaller calibres like .223.

    Suppressors generally will improve accuracy, especially on thinner sporter type barrels, Kimbers etc,

    This probably occurs because of the increase in weight on the barrel helping with barrel harmonics & the over weight increase on the rifle will help.

  4. #4
    Member jim160's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    2,076
    Yes Greg, my shooting improved with one of Scott Trails brakes. But it all depends on the shooter and the quality of rifle.

    But then I shot a 10 shot single hole group with one of his rifles without a brake. So I reckon quality of rifle means more.

    Just my opinion though.
    Uplandstalker likes this.

  5. #5
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    14,891
    Also if there is movement in, or of, the stock then the reduction on recoil will lessen the amount of movement. Robbie Tiffen showed me the flex in the pistol grip of my plastic stocked Zastava 223. After getting a suppressor fitted the groups went from 3-4" to 1/2" at 100m. Same ammo and a number of different shooters.
    Tommy likes this.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Central Otago
    Posts
    903
    A good centrefire suppressor should incorporate an internal muzzle brake. Both muzzle brakes and suppressors have the potential to improve accuracy, and over-barrel suppressors with a rear barrel bush have the most potential, especially with lighter barrelled rifles. The reason (as previous mentioned) is the dampening of barrel harmonics by the increased muzzle weight, and the rear bush provides extra dampening effect. Barrel 'whip' is the accuracy killer in most hunting rifles. This can be improved by a good bedding job, then further enhanced by a good suppressor. Whilst muzzle brakes reduce recoil, they can also increase the potential to flinch because of the increased muzzle blast. A good suppressor, correctly fitted, cures both problems.

  7. #7
    Member jim160's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Wellington
    Posts
    2,076
    I agree gadgetman. I'm just saying what I have found. I'm not praising my own products, just my experiences.
    Suppressors now have brakes incorporated in their design so they will be more efficient than a brake alone.
    I know Robbie's suppressors work well and am aware of how much h any rifle flexes on firing.

    Any form of reducing recoil will improve groups.

  8. #8
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Nelson
    Posts
    5,544
    Suppressors reduce very little physical recoil compared to a decent ported brake.

  9. #9
    If your not fast your last Shootm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Mighty Manawatu
    Posts
    2,764
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg View Post
    Suppressors reduce very little physical recoil compared to a decent ported brake.
    And yours are awesome brakes
    Kiwi Greg likes this.

    I Have Sexdaily. I mean Dyslexia! Fcuk!

  10. #10
    Member Puffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Porirua
    Posts
    576
    Quote Originally Posted by gundoc View Post
    A good centrefire suppressor should incorporate an internal muzzle brake.
    Quote Originally Posted by jim160 View Post
    Suppressors now have brakes incorporated in their design so they will be more efficient than a brake alone.
    Deviating off-topic somewhat I know, but these are interesting comments: could you please explain to me the physics of any enhancement in recoil reduction from having a "muzzle brake" internal to a suppressor beyond the spreading in time of the gas generated impulse with an associated reduction in intensity that is inherent to a suppressor function in standard configuration?

  11. #11
    ebf
    ebf is offline
    The gnome returns ! ebf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Hutt Valley
    Posts
    5,067
    Quote Originally Posted by gundoc View Post
    A good centrefire suppressor should incorporate an internal muzzle brake. Both muzzle brakes and suppressors have the potential to improve accuracy, and over-barrel suppressors with a rear barrel bush have the most potential, especially with lighter barrelled rifles. The reason (as previous mentioned) is the dampening of barrel harmonics by the increased muzzle weight, and the rear bush provides extra dampening effect. Barrel 'whip' is the accuracy killer in most hunting rifles. This can be improved by a good bedding job, then further enhanced by a good suppressor. Whilst muzzle brakes reduce recoil, they can also increase the potential to flinch because of the increased muzzle blast. A good suppressor, correctly fitted, cures both problems.
    Interesting comments gundoc, although I am not sure I completely agree with your analysis.

    All barrels "whip" or to put it differently are affected by harmonics. From the skinniest hunting barrel to the heaviest benchrest one. I've stood and watched Palma profile barrels whip around like a limp noodle

    To me, the first port of call should be tuning the load to minimise the effect of the sine wave. I would tune the load first, and then start looking at a barrel tuner to further decrease the effects. Part of that may well be due to dampening effect by more weight up front, but it also gives you the benefit of being able to tweak loaded rounds depending on conditions on the day.

    I suspect most people find increased accuracy with brakes or supressors simply because of a reduction in felt or perceived recoil...
    R93 and PERRISCICABA like this.
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
    Black rifles matter...

  12. #12
    Member Marty Henry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Tararua
    Posts
    3,446
    fitting both a muzzle break. or supressor means recrowning sometimes this is the real fix in my opinion based on experience with three rifles.
    Uplandstalker likes this.

  13. #13
    Member Puffin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Porirua
    Posts
    576
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg View Post
    I've lost count of the number of clients who have reported improved accuracy from their rifles after installing one of my Terminator Muzzle Brakes, even on the smaller calibres like .223.
    My familiarity with the Terminator brakes only extends to a single T2, but I think it would be fair to say that muzzle brakes on the whole - unlike suppressors - do not dampen vibration or add to overall weight to any great extent.

    What this muzzle brake-specific info from KG says to me then is that even with a .223 - a calibre typically classed as having negligible recoil - shooters appear to employ better technique and so shoot better the less recoil is experienced, even if this was very little in the first place.
    Re-phrasing my initial post: I'm proposing that the recoil profile is substantially the same for the time the bullet is in the barrel whether a brake is fitted or not. It is only after all opportunity for the shooter to influence the placement of the bullet has passed that the beneficial effects of a brake in reducing recoil are enjoyed! The recoil-reducing effect of a muzzle brake does not and cannot influence the shot directly. The anticipation of the brake's effect influences the shooter, the shooter's preemptive response then influences the shot. The psychology is interesting but not surprising.
    If your thinking is different please tell me what & why as I haven't seen this aspect discussed before.
    Last edited by Puffin; 20-12-2015 at 11:39 PM.

  14. #14
    R93
    R93 is offline
    Member R93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Westland NZ
    Posts
    14,746
    I have a muzzle brake on my JP AR. It is annoyingly loud but compared to other AR's I have fired, suppressed or without a brake, it is noticeably faster and easier to get a second accurate shot off.
    The brake design is pretty generic on the JP. It is double baffle with parallel ports, but has a large surface area for gas to impinge on.

    I would like to suppress the same barrel to form any solid conclusion as to which is better, but I suspect the break is way more efficient.
    Do what ya want! Ya will anyway.

  15. #15
    Ejected
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    HBC, NORTH of Auckland
    Posts
    5,250
    So are you trying to say that a muzzle brake or suppressor that isn't concentric and therefore not having an even gas flow around the bullet won't effect accuracy or stability? And that the air being pushed forward of the bullet as it travels down the tube and into/onto the brake/suppressor plays no part?
    gadgetman and ebf like this.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Terminator muzzle brakes VS suppressors
    By Kiwi Greg in forum Terminator Products
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-04-2015, 12:40 PM
  2. T2 Muzzle Brakes
    By Kiwi Greg in forum Terminator Products
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 21-09-2013, 08:54 PM
  3. New Muzzle Brakes
    By Kiwi Greg in forum Terminator Products
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-03-2013, 06:35 PM
  4. Muzzle Brakes.
    By Kiwi Greg in forum Terminator Products
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 22-03-2012, 07:55 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!