Nathan Foster

Some of you are probably familiar with him and his website: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/

Nathan Foster tests cartridges and researches ballistics (as it pertains to hunting in field conditions) for a living. He's a walking encyclopedia on how various projectiles/loads perform on various game, at various distances. He's also a proficient long-range shooter.

Well worth buying his books, or spending some time talking with him. Wish I'd done it sooner, as I've wasted a lot of money trawling through online forums and cherry picking advice from random people - sometimes it works out, but often not. Generally people will recommend whatever they're using themselves, as opposed to what will work for somebody else. Or in the case of online/magazine gear reviews, they'll lick their sponsor's balls for the sake of making some coin.

Nothing beats learning via trial and error, but if you want to fast track things by taking on other people's advice, going to somebody who actually walks the walk can save some frustration.

Of course, there are plenty of knowledgeable people out there who haven't made a business out of providing information. But if you aren't lucky enough to have a reliable mentor, I'd recommend Nathan's books. Good place to start.

Totally agree, he is a legend!

Just remember to cross reference some of what he has to say about specific cartridge and projectile behavior/performance with personal experience, he isn't always right about everything.

Yep, agree - ultimately it's everyone's responsibility to test things out for themselves.

Errrr, I dont know if I would advocate for him....

Pretty average knowledge base in my experience. I would be more inclined to use one of the OEM reloading manuals than anything he puts out.

He writes very favourably about 270's and that's good enough to get my vote. He is far less praising of 308's which may upset a few ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Proudkiwi

Errrr, I dont know if I would advocate for him....

Pretty average knowledge base in my experience. I would be more inclined to use one of the OEM reloading manuals than anything he puts out.

---

?? he hasnt written a reloading manual?.
he might say the powder range he typically loads in and likes this projectile or primer. other than that I dont think anyone would say that is a substitute for a reloading manual.

He lost some credibility with me when suggested you can anneal a soft point jacket with a candle and change expansion characteristics to make a hard bullet soft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bully

?? he hasnt written a reloading manual?.
he might say the powder range he typically loads in and likes this projectile or primer. other than that I dont think anyone would say that is a substitute for a reloading manual.

---

actually he has....but its more a how to and doesnt have load data.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dicko

He lost some credibility with me when suggested you can anneal a soft point jacket with a candle and change expansion characteristics to make a hard bullet soft.

---

well Dicko....have you tried it to see if it works before scoffing at it????metallurgy 101 I would have thought.....different strokes for different folks.
go back 20 years...to when most of that knowledge base was written and your Vmax was still reasonably new...long long range was too..go back a further 10 years and rangefinders n dialing was a VERY rare thing indeed.....times have changed and projectiles have caught up...back then they hadnt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dicko

He lost some credibility with me when suggested you can anneal a soft point jacket with a candle and change expansion characteristics to make a hard bullet soft.

---

Not sure about the soft points, but after reading this info I have annealed the 168vlds I was using in my saum carefully with a small gas torch until they colour up, then quenching (opposite of annealing steel). I believe, comparing on animals, it works. Might be bs, by my experience it works imho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jono7

Not sure about the soft points, but after reading this info I have annealed the 168vlds I was using in my saum carefully with a small gas torch until they colour up, then quenching (opposite of annealing steel). I believe, comparing on animals, it works. Might be bs, by my experience it works imho.

---

not being cheeky at all but what are you hoping to achieve by doing this ?
Is this to increase close range performance or long ?
please excuse my naivety

Annealing any Projectile is just crazy . Lead melts at 330 Celsius and Copper anneals at 400 Celsius. I cannot imagine what that means .

i beleive the part he anneals is the tip which is hollow. The lead being a bit lower. The tip will have annealed before the whole copper will have melted . He does it in a metal pan with some water on the bottom I believe (?)
Maybe try it for your self and then come back with a conclusion.( positive or negative)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phil_H

And yet in his book The Practical Guide to Long Range Hunting Cartridges, 2nd Edition, his first two sentences in the section .308 Winchester are, and I quote...

"Some readers will already know that the .308 Winchester is one of my favourite cartridges. The .308 is what I call a hack because of its utilitarian qualities and versatility."

The way I read his book is that he very much likes the .308 cartridge, he just doesn't get all religious about it and is quick to understand and point out that many other cartridges do many things a lot better. But that said, he likes the .308 as it is a good all-rounder.

My take on it ( the bait ) at least.

Cheers
Phil

---

Ahrr Phil, why did it have to be sensible you who took the bait ??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Ahrr Phil, why did it have to be sensible you who took the bait ??

---

"sensible" :D :D :D :ORLY:

Wont annealing the jacket tip make it tougher and delay expansion, whereas heating and then quenching copper will soften it - opposite of ferrous ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Wont annealing the jacket tip make it tougher and delay expansion, whereas heating and then quenching copper will soften it - opposite of ferrous ?

---

If the copper is softer, will it cause more copper fouling in the barrel?

It’s a real shame that Foster went with this bullet annealing business as it has totally polluted the rest of his work, the world over. Google it, comes up in forums from every corner of the planet it seems.

A lot of what he’s got to say is good quality, but being the hard to please, tall poppy hating bunch that we are we can only focus on the divisive. I know he regrets it.

Nathan's a good cunt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phil_H

Sorry......possibly something to do with being on night shift, lacking sleep....which just makes one take things all too literally..:psychotic:

Cheers Phil

---

Cheeky sod was after me, I waited for someone else to wander out into the clearing.....:cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

actually he has....but its more a how to and doesnt have load data.

---

exactly, not a reloading manual. I have the book.

https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...+tutorial.html

Interesting. So will annealing their front ends turn open-tip SMKs, into hunting bullets?

Attachment 148875
Sierra Matchking, M80, Sierra Gameking

well LOOKING at what you have sectioned...the SMK has lighter jacket so if opening in tip is same as the SGK it would open up FASTER....by making the metal in front bit softer than rear IT COULD slow down expansion a little but it still wont be as controlled as the thicker one.....
hunting bullet is subjective.......close range needs to hold together and penertrate without blowing up...mid range needs to penertrate and expand enough to do damage...long range needs to expand like buggery to do enough damage with out the shock factor associated with higher velocity...
our parents and grandparents shot deer with fmj milserp .303......but they wounded lots too.....didnt matter if another around next corner...breaking shoulder bones helped to make FMJ do damage rather than pinhole.....
I dont candle anneal....I do however have projectiles sitting on sunny windowsill at times....
dont use eld...type in bigger rifles but do use v-zmax in .223 for varmits
I dont agree with everything the man says but usually more than 95% I do....and the other 5% is different ways of hunting more than anything else....
top bloke who from all Ive seen and experienced goes out of his way to help and give back to community.

A Meplat dia of 25 thou or larger is more important for reliable hunting projectile expansion on game than the hardness of the jacket at the tip

A meplat of 25 thousands of an inch equals 0.635 mm according to my slide rule. Even .30 FMJs have that much meplat.

My apologies

I should have said Meplat hole dia

How many of you has actually put the bullet annealing business to test?

Its rubbish, ive tried it with bergers, sierra hollowpoints as well as SST's which i think he actually names as one of the bullets he anneals.

Problems that happen is

With sst and i assume any other plastic tip bullets, the air in the bullet expands and pops the tip out. So thats pointless

With HP bullets, the lead melts before the copper anneals. The lead expands so it moves forward in the bullet upsetting the balance, and on some of them the lead even comes out of the hollow tip.


Just use eldm if you wanna hunt long range.

And use interlocks if you hunt regular range

Or whatever simmilar there is from other brands.

Lot of his stuff seems to be compied from American stuff.

His bedding compound is good though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NewbieZAR

With sst and i assume any other plastic tip bullets, the air in the bullet expands and pops the tip out. So thats pointless

With HP bullets, the lead melts before the copper anneals. The lead expands so it moves forward in the bullet upsetting the balance, and on some of them the lead even comes out of the hollow tip.

---

I get the pun, or the point! :thumbsup:

Lead melts at 327.5C but copper annealing required 400-700C so that is a conflict. Lead-antimony alloys have even lower melting point than pure lead.

With Sierra MatchKings or GameKings the copper extends ahead of the lead, so if you stand them up in water (as Foster advocated), to just below the lead level, you should be able to at least anneal the work hardened tips without affecting their lead cores.

Attachment 149199

Alternatively, as you suggest, don't bother.

Not gonna try it. I dont want a bullet potentially flying apart due to rpm as it exits the barrel. Plenty of well designed bullets these days.
Question, could a candle flame even get any sort of brass to anneal?
If it did, is there a potential to create a problem with the bearing surface on the bullet. It does with case mouths (fact) so i would think you would leave more brass in the barrel.

Not sure about Nathan he certainly has done a lot of work however his total objection to the use of a bipod pretty much turned me right off his ideas. If you want to shoot off a pack go for it but don't tell anyone who uses a bipod they are wrong.

funnily enough Mr Foster does go into depth on how to best use a bipod in his books....he does suggest you learn over daybag first... and I can see merit in that...Ive just purchased my first bipod....because Im using a heavy rifle in light recoiling calibre and getting above long grass has been problimatic...I still hold forend using it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NewbieZAR

Just use eldm if you wanna hunt long range.

And use interlocks if you hunt regular range

Or whatever simmilar there is from other brands.

Lot of his stuff seems to be compied from American stuff.

His bedding compound is good though

---

Just head shoot the c**ts :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 300_BLK

Just head shoot the c**ts :thumbsup:

---

Bloody oath, what a pointless exercise haha.
Far better things to do with ya time than mucking about heating up bullets

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

funnily enough Mr Foster does go into depth on how to best use a bipod in his books....he does suggest you learn over daybag first... and I can see merit in that...Ive just purchased my first bipod....because Im using a heavy rifle in light recoiling calibre and getting above long grass has been problimatic...I still hold forend using it.

---

Too much slamming of bipods or shooting off bags goes on without people thinking about other factors first, some stocks shoot terribly off a bipod (weak fore-end) but then again a sling swivel stud drilled into the stock was never mean to be load bearing in the sense of anywhere between a 50-90kg+ person leaning into it to 'pre-load'.

Essentially, a stock designed to be shot in prone (most modern 'tactical' stocks) are terrible for offhand shooting, either too heavy or when made in carbon, their sheer bulk make them difficult to handle. On the otherhand, a 'sporter' stock is always going to be a compromise when shooting prone. Would much prefer to use a bag with a sporter stock, especially if you are already carrying a bag!

Either that or get a 200 gram odd Spartan bipod! (but don't lean into it like a Harris or Atlas!) :P

How much money and time do these projectile manufacturers spend testing designs?

Buy the right projectile for the job and leave it at that.
In saying that since all these new ballistic tip prokectiles have came out people think soft points are obsolete and have suddenly stopped killing