I won't comment, yet. Read for yourself.
http://sportingshooters.nz/wp-conten...ruary-2016.pdf
"Sporterised MSSA" - Fuck me sideways....
I won't comment, yet. Read for yourself.
http://sportingshooters.nz/wp-conten...ruary-2016.pdf
"Sporterised MSSA" - Fuck me sideways....
well , i guess they have to get up to pace with technology and information sharing .... not to sure i like , import and export cost recovery though.....unsure what a sportirised mssa is
sporterised MSSA presumably means A cat compliant AR's/Ak's etc
Do we not recall this?
When they specifically said they will not be seeking cost recovery in regards to firearm licencing etc.
Policing (Cost Recovery) Amendment Bill 217-2 (2014), Government Bill – New Zealand Legislation
Do you not see what they are doing here? They are broadening the term, THEY made the term up and specifically defined it, now it doesn't suite them any longer, now they wish to broaden the term.Quote:
Originally Posted by clavulanate
So are they going to get anal about buying SKS's too? Presumably not because they aren't black
firearms notation - in reponse to burglaries. So they will want to record every single serial number you hold.
Top right of second page is in response to Helen DuPlesis.
Air pistols prob will go to a new classification.
"For example there are three principle problems which are part of a wider issue about whether or not the distinction between MSSAs and other semiautomatics firearms (rifles and shotguns) is sustainable or enforceable"
"sporterised MSSAs"
"A briefing to the Minister of Police is currently being finalised detailing potential legislative changes through an Arms Amendment Bill 2016 which will impact some of these issues"
I would expect a push that ARs and other "military" semiautomatics are classed as MSSAs, using an Order in Council, as permitted by the Arms Act 1983-Section 2 Interpretation
military style semi-automatic firearm means a firearm (other than a pistol) that is—
(b) a semi-automatic firearm of a make and model declared by an order under section 74A to be a military style semi-automatic firearm for the purposes of this Act; or
(c) a semi-automatic firearm of a description declared by an order under section 74A to be a military style semi-automatic firearm for the purposes of this Act; or
(d) a semi-automatic firearm that has a feature of a kind defined or described in an order under section 74A as a feature of military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act
74A Orders relating to military style semi-automatic firearms
The Governor-General may by Order in Council do any or all of the following things:
(a) describe a kind of component as a pistol grip for the purposes of the definition in section 2 of military style semi-automatic firearm:
(b) declare semi-automatic firearms (other than pistols) of a stated make and model to be military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act:
(c) declare semi-automatic firearms (other than pistols) of a stated description to be military style semi-automatic firearms for the purposes of this Act:
(d) define or describe features of a semi-automatic firearm (other than a pistol) as features of a military style semi-automatic firearm for the purposes of this Act.
If ANY semi-auto becomes an MSSA by the existence or addition of any of the MSSA-defining features, and ANY semi-auto CAN become an MSSA, then a 'sporterised MSSA' is simply any A-cat semi-auto. They are trying to tar all semi-autos with the same 'scary black gun' brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by clavulanate
Regarding cost recovery, I fail to see how any legislatively required process, designed to enable the core task of public safety, can be classed as a 'demand service' for which they can charge. The public are REQUIRED to have a FAL in order to own firearms (and rightly so), and FAL holders are REQUIRED to have a permit to import or purchase via online / mail-order.
I guess their rebuttal will be 'No one is REQUIRED to own firearms - it is a privilege, not a right, and if you wish to exercise that privilege, expect to pay (even more)'.
This line here "For example there are three principle problems which are part of a wider issue about whether or not the distinction between MSSAs and other semiautomatics firearms (rifles and shotguns) is sustainable or enforceable"
Seems to indicate changes are afoot with regards to semi auto ownership. It may not be a dumb idea to buy an E cat safe and stock up on spare parts for any semi autos you may own.
The key issue I see is the existence of both A and E category firearms of the same type. Being the Devils advocate here, there are many accessories and gun parts being imported legitimately for A category firearms that can be readily used on E category firearms, which circumvents, even unintentionally, the strict controls on MSSA parts that police have always desired. All of these parts can be used to easily convert any semi auto to an MSSA configuration, off or on the books. When the law was written and implemented, even up until the 2009 fiasco, the idea of bolt action rifles sharing the same stocks, grips, mags etc as AR15's was pretty obscure. It's now mainstream.
It is apparent to anybody with half a brain the the MSSA restrictions are a joke. The law is so easily broken or circumvented that the restrictions are almost only ceremonial to those interested in being on the right side of the law. There is no real control over MSSA's. The control factor only effects those who actually care about the law enough to follow it, and practically any semi auto in existence can be converted to an MSSA. Even a lowly 10/22 or cheap semi auto duck gun.
The line of being sustainable and enforceable is interesting. It gives off a vibe of "the horse has bolted, our control methods have failed". It will be interesting which way they decide to go with this. I can't see any change being good for us. If they decide to say can the MSSA definition by looks and focus soley on magazine capacity perhaps...they may find life a little easier. If they decide to go full retard and reign in all semi autos I predict they will open up a can of worms that see's an exponential increase in the number of "grey" and illicit guns "out on the street".
They will go full retard, focus on ability to buy a MSSA magazine without a license is too sensible.
As the internet is a good record of the thoughts of humanity maybe someone will read this forum in the future as say
.."wow look at the freedoms they had back then... why did they give them up?.. now only criminals and Police have firearms.."
Lets say this come into law and the Police get their way, possible out come could be....
Semi Automatic guns that have the look and feelings of a MSSA will be reclassified from A Cat to E Cat / MSSA.
Thus overnight making a whole bunch of A Cat owners now breaking the law.
As there is no data base of A Cat firearms how will they know who now has the newly classified MSSA's? -
Some predictions based on what the last 20 years in Uk, Australia and Canada has shown us
1. Will there be a rush of people getting E endorsements? - No
2. Will the Police be over loaded with the new laws? - Yes
3. Will there be a mass handing in of the newly classified MSSA's - No
4. Will many the newly classified MSSA's 'disappear' into the ether? - Yes
5. Will there be a push for a mass registration of all firearms - Likely
6. Will the mass firearms register a become big, cumbersome, costly and ineffective - Yes
7. Will criminals now find it harder to get hold of firearms - No
8. Will the Police and the Public now have more MSSA's pointed at them by criminals - Yes
9. Will criminals abide by the new law? - No
10. Will it reduce the number of murders by firearms - No
11. Will law abiding firearms users now incur more cost and bureaucracy in the pursuit of their sport / hobby - Yes
12. Will firearm accidents still occur? - Yes
13. Will there be a de-escalation of the militarisation of Police? (Coz if all the guns are gone then the Police don't need guns) - No
14. Will the public feel safer with these new laws? - No as the media will find a new thing to scare the public with. :psychotic:
15. Will Automatic Bullet Button High Capacity Magnetize Clips with High Calibre Assault Sniper Rounds be banned ? - No (coz they don't exist :XD: )
16. Will all gun crimes be solved in 45min like on CSI - No :roll:
So these new laws are all about saving lives right.
But as of 2016
1. Statistically speaking are you be more likely to die because you ate to much good food, got over weight and picked up several health problems than been killed by a firearm.
2. Statistically speaking are you be more likely to die because you where walking on train tracks and did not notice the 100,000kg train coming your way than been killed by a firearm.
3. More people drown each year in boating accidents because the where too tough and did not need a life jacket, than people be killed by a firearms.
4. Statistically speaking are you be more likely to die because you where txting while driving and crashed into a large object than been killed by a firearm.
5. Seems like the current laws a working just fine http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10660886
I'm sure this topic will be discussed by both those for firearms ownership and those against firearms ownership
I look forward to the final step
" Once this is complete, analysis of the time taken vs the deliverable will be used to inform the financial modelling process and determine costs and required revenues moving forward"
In English this means, " when we know what we want, and ask how much it will cost, we will shit bricks and run for the hills or try bill someone and see if they pay it...."
They will go full retard, we all know this....Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis
This sounds as though Police HQ are effectively blind and have no real effective control of either process or their people . So they have hired someone to fix a broken system .
They also seem to admit that there has been a "loss" of control of firearms controls in that every time they re jig their team the opposition still manage to get through their defences . Just what the outcome of this can go either way of more or less legislation ?.
And Firearms ownership is a Right that is subject to Law , as stated in the Bill of Rights 1869 not a privilege even though it only mentions Proddy's .
Firearms laws are a sinking lid. We will never see a reversal of control, in saying that I'd love to be proved wrong. If the MSSA controls have been a failure and they can no longer make a realistic distinction between them and "sporting rifles" you have to ask yourself where too from here. You first need to define what the failure might actually be, since there are rarely any high profile criminal events involving MSSA's (or even sporting semi autos?). Failed to meet some obscure UN agreement? Failure to meet some political forces ideology? They need to be more up front and transparent with what their goals actually are.
maybe time to try and get my E-cat endorsement
This is really nothing to do with real gun control , they donot control the criminal use of guns , they can however impact the law abiding , this is pure and simple people control .
Criminals donot abide by any Laws , they are however not stupid , IF it was the nz GovT intention to reduce people using firearms to kill , all they would have to do , is make a multiplier to add on to any offence , ie say 3x , so say the std time for murder is 15yrs , multiply it by 3x just because a fireamt is used , and you get 45yrs , no time off , no suspended sentences .
Over nite , most murders would use , axe, screw driver , bow , machette , hatchet , etc , you get the idea , simple & sorted .
This is people control , all we have seen , over the yrs are more & more restrictive laws in reguarding firearms & most other things as well , we have lost a lot of so called freedoms over the yrs , and we are worse off for it , not better .
We have also seen a lot of good old cops , retire , and the people replacing them are not as good , or not being allowed to be as good , we use to have a lot of so called common sense , not longer .
In the end they will do as they please , with little to no reguard for the real citizens , we are unfortuntally ( the silent law abiding majority ) , being treated like we are the problem .
It use to be if it was shown to be a mistake , like the idea of registration etc , we could point to countries that had done it , and the facts are it cost a mountain of cash , and firearm offences went up , not down , look at Aussie / Canada etc , that was enough , and the idea was scrapped .
Now , the facts that something will not work , and is wrong , dosnt matter at all , just Lucky Spook is not a Kiwi & is dead , or his head would explode from the lack of Logic being applied here .
And thats truelly such a shame , but it is what it is , what we need is actually our own Party , and for all sportmen & women to vote them , maybe one day we could be as big as the Greens , BUt be a bit more sensible & smarter .
Rant Off
I forgot , GOOOO MMP