Otorohanga Sniper Shoot 13-05-12

My good mate Chris invited me along to Steve Goodman's Sniper shoot this past weekend. It was primarily designed as a service rifle event with an open class attached. Keen to test our new T3 sporters out to medium range we signed up. Saturday finally came and we headed down. It was a perfect day with little wind so we both managed to take some usefull range data. Anyway Sunday rolled on and the weather turned to custard as forecast. Being the legends that Kiwis are, everyone turned up and the shoot got underway. Of the six rounds I enjoyed the untimed 500y and 600y the best as i found them easier, with the rappid rounds really testing us all to the limit. I'd never experienced pressure like that even in the Army - I'll be practicing my two mag firing cycle in under 75 seconds till I master it.

No complaints at all. Loved every second of it Steve! I'll deffinately be back next year (If you'll have me)
-Tim

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/3979...6-pm-149k?da=y

Attachment 1692

I read about one of these in a mag recently, the opening pic was some guy in a full camo get up with webbing, and an AR-15 with scope, looks like this one was a little more relaxed.

The full break down of the day is on the link above.
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If Malcolm Gillice is a quiet red haired fella? He would be about the only real qualified sniper there. I see the old bugger can still shoot.
He has won the Army top shot 5-6 times. And one of the only non combatant soldiers to pass a snipers cse, he topped his.

Few familiar names there good stuff

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If Malcolm Gillice is a quiet red haired fella? He would be about the only real qualified sniper there. I see the old bugger can still shoot.
He has won the Army top shot 5-6 times. And one of the only non combatant soldiers to pass a snipers cse, he topped his.

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Its only a name. I'm pretty sure nobody there thought they were real snipers ha ha. A couple of my mates chose to take that course and they passed. I chose DFSW platoon 'cause i liked long distance machine gunning and anti armour. Engaging enemy possitions from 1km away on the other side of a hill, at NIGHT! Snipers get too much cred i reckon. They arent the only bad asses in the Army. During both phases of infantry training I routinely wooped my mates that took the sniper/recon course at shooting, but let me make one point - a sniper is so much more than a good shot. 99% of their course is recon work. Advanced bushcraft, navigation, observation etc. Most of those who fail do so before they get to do their shooting LF tests. Stupid long demoralising pack marches washed out most of that intake that i saw.
To tell you the truth I wish i'd joined the assault pioneers - blowing up shit, racing around in rubber boats, stuffing bangalore torpedoes under cat-wire. Snipers platoon looked like a bucket of tears and sore feet!

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Originally Posted by Dead is better

Its only a name. I'm pretty sure nobody there thought they were real snipers ha ha. A couple of my mates chose to take that course and they passed. I chose DFSW platoon 'cause i liked long distance machine gunning and anti armour. Engaging enemy possitions from 1km away on the other side of a hill, at NIGHT! Snipers get too much cred i reckon. They arent the only bad asses in the Army. During both phases of infantry training I routinely wooped my mates that took the sniper/recon course at shooting, but let me make one point - a sniper is so much more than a good shot. 99% of their course is recon work. Advanced bushcraft, navigation, observation etc. Most of those who fail do so before they get to do their shooting LF tests. Stupid long demoralising pack marches washed out most of that intake that i saw.
To tell you the truth I wish i'd joined the assault pioneers - blowing up shit, racing around in rubber boats, stuffing bangalore torpedoes under cat-wire. Snipers platoon looked like a bucket of tears and sore feet!

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Well said Dead is Better , so very true . I have shot with Simon Galliss Malcoms son , great guy and a good shot to boot .

Bit different here in NZ. Only 3 units employ snipers. With a 1% pass rate in Nz we never have enough men pass the cse to fill a platoon. Sometimes its years till a single soldier passes a cse.
That is worse than Selection for the elite group in our military. So yeah, there is a lot of pride in the pers that make the grade. Pet hates are calling anyone who fires a rifle at LR targets a sniper. And dumb fuck civvies who thinking they know the score on them, after reading a book. As you pointed out they are not all great shots. They dont have to be.
They have endured years of hell to earn their badge. And they are a huge asset to any commander on the ground. You have to admitt they are well above average as far as soldiering goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. So forgive my Outbursts and my sausage fingers and thumbs!

If is anything like the SAS guys course they deserve their badges well and truely -their course looks like death warmed up they are so hard.

The word Sniper is bandies around loosely probably far to often and should be exchanged with Marksman or Marksmanship .
Even Sniper rile rifle is bandied around loosely also -better a marksmans rifle
marksmans event .Although even civilians can sharp shoot or Snipe !

The verb "to snipe" originated in the 1770s among soldiers in British India where a hunter skilled enough to kill the elusive snipe was dubbed a "sniper".[2] The term sniper was first attested in 1824 in the sense of the word "sharpshooter".[2]

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Originally Posted by el borracho

If is anything like the SAS guys course they deserve their badges well and truely -their course looks like death warmed up they are so hard.

The word Sniper is bandies around loosely probably far to often and should be exchanged with Marksman or Marksmanship .
Even Sniper rile rifle is bandied around loosely also -better a marksmans rifle
marksmans event .Although even civilians can sharp shoot or Snipe !

The verb "to snipe" originated in the 1770s among soldiers in British India where a hunter skilled enough to kill the elusive snipe was dubbed a "sniper".[2] The term sniper was first attested in 1824 in the sense of the word "sharpshooter".[2]

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The SAS selection is way harder than the Snipers to pass physically. The snipers has different requirments that are mental and bloody stressing. Sniping is a craft that shooting is a small part of. There is way more to it and remains in NZ Army one the hardest to pass. Badged SAS member still have to attend the same cse and still fail.

I have heard they are the bright sparks and leaders amoungst their peers

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Originally Posted by el borracho

I have heard they are the bright sparks and leaders amoungst their peers

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I wouldnt go that far either way. I work with an ex squadron member now and he is dumber than dirt. Na.
You dont have to be overly bright or a stand out leader to do the job. Most guys avoided showing their potential so they could remain in the job as long as possible.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. So forgive my Outbursts and my sausage fingers and thumbs!

To do recon as a Sniper possibly alone outside of the area of saftey and be able to navigate and coordernate must show great ability of survival skills , tracking , fittness , ability to use electronic gear properly ,to be a leader that doesnt need direction to function ,be able to Hide, shoot nearly as good as El Borracho , -you can be the "avarage grunt" -no disrepect inteneded

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Originally Posted by el borracho

To do recon as a Sniper possibly alone outside of the area of saftey and be able to navigate and coordernate must show great ability of survival skills , tracking , fittness , ability to use electronic gear properly ,to be a leader that doesnt need direction to function ,be able to Hide, shoot nearly as good as El Borracho , -you can be the "avarage grunt" -no disrepect inteneded

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Sorry, I obviously just wasted my 16yrs in the Army as a soldier. All along, I could have learned what I needed to know from you EL b. I tried to pass on what I knew, I guess as usual I was wrong........ again.

When I said that snipers were well above average as far as soldiering goes I did not mean as an individual or that they are any better than joe blow before they were selected. Their skills and requirments after training however make them well above average as an asset.
I will say they may need to be above average in certain areas to be considered but not in general. Hard to explain.
I tried but cant be bothered anymore.

my end statement was meant to say you "cant 'be your average grunt -no disrespect intended -For some reason I couldnt edit ??

R93 were you special forces or a Sniper ? You appear to want to want to be aggresive when you dont agree with something -regarding your email to me --just a little common sense will tell you what a sniper must be to perform at the level need to be in their position

I definately was not special forces. Tried, wasnt good enough.
I used/intended no aggresion what so ever. I called you out on what was written and as it was written. See it from my side if you will. We have wound each other up in the past. I thought you were starting another wind up so decided to pull you up on it.
You have after I pm'ed you explained what you were meant to have said, so have I.
Stating as I did in the pm that I am sure you and I would not get along if we met is just the truth. If you find that aggresive you have my apologies.
But try and have the metal not to bring up in public that I was aggresive to discredit me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. So forgive my Outbursts and my sausage fingers and thumbs!

Appology humbley accepted and yes I would understand why you sent that email -you did ask me not to reply-- but no problem r93 at all!

A funny story about my uncle when he went on the SAS course in the early days -he and his mate got pissed and threw a flash bang into an officers car which I am told burnt out -when he went to Australia for a parachute course he was interviewed about it -admitted it -court martialed and given the boot -still the SAS boys turned up at his funeral many years later -the family always said he was a hard little bastard. I shoot with a few different guys who have done the training -SBS UK SAS UK Para Bats SA -All have a slightly different presence about them

So if the NZ army has bugger all true snipers, in the sense of a "real" sniper, does the job of long range precision shooting generally fall in a designated marksman type role? I would have thought the ability for commanders to have men on tap to deliver accurate long range fire would be a highly sought after asset

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Originally Posted by Beavis

So if the NZ army has bugger all true snipers, in the sense of a "real" sniper, does the job of long range precision shooting generally fall in a designated marksman type role? I would have thought the ability for commanders to have men on tap to deliver accurate long range fire would be a highly sought after asset

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There is a dedicated marksman to a rifle section yes and it gives the commander on the ground an asset like you have described. The Army has just purchased a 7.62 for the role and the role is filled by the best shots. There are a reasonable group of sniper qualified men in the RF but a lot move on and up.
The job was/is done by Cpl below. And the role is specific and directed generally from battalion level. They are used a lot for intell gathering.

What rifle have they purchased for this role -Auccuracy International or another brand?

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Originally Posted by el borracho

What rifle have they purchased for this role -Auccuracy International or another brand?

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Savage Axis

lol, but only 1 and they have to share it.

On the bright side, they get to practice with an air rifle purchased from Gun City.

and get flown around in reject helo's

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Originally Posted by kiwijames

and get flown around in reject helo's

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Thats the Navy I think that is entertaining that notion -Helos that the Aussis wont touch
My mate has a Savage 338lm -shoots very well but ugly

LMT MWS

nice semi's

The Otorohanga Sniper Shoot was a lot of fun. Had a great day. A shifty wind though, that you had to keep an eye on.

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/x...IMG_5617-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by el borracho

Thats the Navy I think that is entertaining that notion -Helos that the Aussis wont touch
My mate has a Savage 338lm -shoots very well but ugly

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that was because the aussies, being genuine tightarses, brought second hand airframes while we brought brand new ones that had better avionics. Aussies will never learn about second hand equipment.

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Originally Posted by el borracho

What rifle have they purchased for this role -Auccuracy International or another brand?

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Here you go...

New NZ Army Marksman Rifle - YouTube

good vid

Ummm thought this could be a good read ,medium range shooting at paper or steel close to home - started of great but lost it way,may be it could be advertised M,R service rifle sniper shoot no dumb fuck civvie entries with LR rifles please- mite make some folk happier,,imagine what them scotts farmers think every time they see a photo of a sniper posing as a highland shepherd in one of there ghillie suits lol ,fak there's even hunter's posing as shooter's cause they made a nice 90 meter shot on a deer ,and shooter's thinkin there hunter's cause they smoked one at 6 hundy .God bless the NZDF its just that sum ex members can be like ex smoker's LMFAO

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Originally Posted by R93

The SAS selection is way harder than the Snipers to pass physically. The snipers has different requirments that are mental and bloody stressing. Sniping is a craft that shooting is a small part of. There is way more to it and remains in NZ Army one the hardest to pass. Badged SAS member still have to attend the same cse and still fail.

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That is so true. Its not just the physical either. I saw hardened corporals that had made the army their career fail on the psych evaluation - dudes with happy snap photo albums of so called skinnies that they had shot. i was kinda horrified when they showed me. There were some prize A-holes in the Infantry. Really dont know what they want for SAS actually. You gotta be smart as well as a huge risk taker perhaps. In Aus they take whats known as the 'carter course' or they did back in the day. The snipers i knew were told they couldnt socialise with their buddies in the other support platoons. (most of the 30 did fail) one mate did so via wrapping his arm around a tigermoth tailplane during a parachuting accident ('adventure training'). Ever notice that the smartest people do the dumbest things? ha ha.
-On another tangent - i wonder if the SAS have their own snipers? they are an independant regiment that train up their own specialists. maybe they do?

As for hunting LR - this shoot was an eye opener for me. I wont be trying to kill anything that far out. No flags to help me onto the KZ out in the boonies HAHA. nah 300m will be heaps. I didnt enjoy bunny hunting with my air rifle untill i learnt to almost step on em. The thrill for me is being sneaky