Precision shooting recoil/point of aim

I've been watching quite a lot YouTube videos during this pandemic lock down time at home recently. Got a question regarding the recoil and point of aim in your scope before and after pull the trigger.

In this video from Mark, https://youtu.be/BFAg1WGhPC8?t=604 at about 10:10, he mentioned the point of aim expected to be within 2MOA(roughly half mil) in your scope, vertical is better than horizontal.

And in this gentleman's video, https://youtu.be/isQiEsXNC_E?t=678 his shoots between 11:30 and 13:00, I notice the point of aim jumps mostly left, sometimes right to the original aiming point, about 2mils(he is shooting PRS, so I am guessing he is using Mil scope, luckily he has a scope camera can record everything seeing from the scope)

Anyone can spot anything wrong with the shooter in the 2nd video?
To me, his prone shooting position is steady, trigger pull is smooth, I don't see any bipod jump, nor muzzle jump so I reckon he did handle the recoil properly. But the point of aim moved about 1.5-2mils(roughly 5-7MOA), is this something significant enough from your experience and needs to be corrected or reduced for precision shooting? Or how much offset do people normally have for your point of aim before and after take the shot?

Thank you.

Note that the first video is using a sled a rear support, rather than a bag (which will have movement and compress under recoil) so having slightly larger reticle movement during/after recoil in comparison should be expected.

However, from my understanding (listening to Modern Day Sniper Podcast etc.) you shouldn't be seeing significant left or right movement as that comes from angles in your shooting position (e.g. body not straight behind the rifle, one shoulder or elbow forward of the other. They talk about your second sight picture (sight picture after recoil) should keep the target within your field of view, so Piet in the second video looks like he is doing a good job.

I guess this is where expeience comes in. Personally I am still working on my fundamentals and combating bipod jump and find that often my sight picture is off by more like 5-7mils and sometimes only just within my field of view (depending on magnification). I know i struggle at the moment with getting my body aligned so that likely has a significant impact on the position of that second sight picture. Basically saying compare apples with apples... checkout Phil Velayo (@velayo_0317) on instagram, he is a top level shooter (and one of the hosts on Modern Day Sniper Podcast) and has some Phoneskope videos on instagram, that may give you a good baseline.

watch these video's I found the quite good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhaa...ndex=35&t=499s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=727AupokjMg&list=PLLnh4uOmudg1rgFPbqgwQQUl 65-lrIY0U&index=35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqxNBl4FLDA&list=PLLnh4uOmudg1rgFPbqgwQQUl 65-lrIY0U&index=36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjG1JZxiui0&list=PLLnh4uOmudg1rgFPbqgwQQUl 65-lrIY0U&index=37

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oli1102

Note that the first video is using a sled a rear support, rather than a bag (which will have movement and compress under recoil) so having slightly larger reticle movement during/after recoil in comparison should be expected.

However, from my understanding (listening to Modern Day Sniper Podcast etc.) you shouldn't be seeing significant left or right movement as that comes from angles in your shooting position (e.g. body not straight behind the rifle, one shoulder or elbow forward of the other. They talk about your second sight picture (sight picture after recoil) should keep the target within your field of view, so Piet in the second video looks like he is doing a good job.

I guess this is where expeience comes in. Personally I am still working on my fundamentals and combating bipod jump and find that often my sight picture is off by more like 5-7mils and sometimes only just within my field of view (depending on magnification). I know i struggle at the moment with getting my body aligned so that likely has a significant impact on the position of that second sight picture. Basically saying compare apples with apples... checkout Phil Velayo (@velayo_0317) on instagram, he is a top level shooter (and one of the hosts on Modern Day Sniper Podcast) and has some Phoneskope videos on instagram, that may give you a good baseline.

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Wow, thank you very much sir by sharing so much info.

Are you saying because Mark(1st video) is using a more steady rear support than Piet(2nd video), it would help to reduce the movement where Marks see through the scope, which he claims within 2MOA? That makes sense to me. I've seen quite a lot of F-class shooters having similar rear support setup instead of a hand hold bag.

Will definitely check the podcast you mentioned. Not sure if you have watched these videos or not, this is where I have better understanding to Recoil. Unforunately, he doesn't have a scope camera like Piet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whVH-FaZyQs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fciKcjGKs84
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKSd31KSI88

And Phillip Velayo also gives a really good demostration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5hvm1tbDyg

I am learning the fundamentals of marksmanship as well and try to minimize the muzzle/bipod jump, recoil impact to the accuracy. From my experience, the best I can do is about 3-4mils at about 18x magnification and I still can see the target. After I watched Mark's video, I thought, damn, there must be something wrong with either me or my rifle setup.:TT TT:

Thank you again to share your experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by winaa

watch these video's I found the quite good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zhaan8Hsox8&list=PLLnh4uOmudg1rgFPbqgwQQUl 65-lrIY0U&index=35&t=499s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=727AupokjMg&list=PLLnh4uOmudg1rgFPbqgwQQUl 65-lrIY0U&index=35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqxNBl4FLDA&list=PLLnh4uOmudg1rgFPbqgwQQUl 65-lrIY0U&index=36

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjG1JZxiui0&list=PLLnh4uOmudg1rgFPbqgwQQUl 65-lrIY0U&index=37

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Thank you. I did go through Frank's videos.

His griping hand one did help a lot. Unfunurately, I can't look through his scope like Piet (2nd video), but I am sure his recoil management and follow through must be excellent.

Do you still remember how much movement your point of aim is when you shoot?

First up I have not watched the videos yet but assuming a medium / light rifle and a caliber larger than 7mm.
Rights that's my cover in place.
Just looking at the cover pics on those videos I notice that while some of those rifles have slings in place no one is using them.
Particularly as recoil climbs or rifle weight drops using the sling really helps to control the front end and pulling the rifle in tight to brace the hold.
Like everything consistency in vital. How much down tension and pull back into the shoulder.
Without the front end control the rifle is free to move around a lot more under recoil.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...at+Forend.html

In my case I can shoot my 243 crossed arms as it's not a light weight and has a lightish after market trigger. My 358win I have to use the sling with the bipod to stop it climbing over my shoulder. Makes it more technically challenging to shoot.
Z

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZQLewis

First up I have not watched the videos yet but assuming a medium / light rifle and a caliber larger than 7mm.
Rights that's my cover in place.
Just looking at the cover pics on those videos I notice that while some of those rifles have slings in place no one is using them.
Particularly as recoil climbs or rifle weight drops using the sling really helps to control the front end and pulling the rifle in tight to brace the hold.
Like everything consistency in vital. How much down tension and pull back into the shoulder.
Without the front end control the rifle is free to move around a lot more under recoil.
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Kno...at+Forend.html

In my case I can shoot my 243 crossed arms as it's not a light weight and has a lightish after market trigger. My 358win I have to use the sling with the bipod to stop it climbing over my shoulder. Makes it more technically challenging to shoot.
Z

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Thanks for your reply.

Neither of those two videos in my original post using a sling. You can skip most of the video just go to the specific time I mentioned and see what I was asking.

I believe loading the bipod will help on recoil/make the rifle more steady after pull the trigger.

Mark (in the 1st video from at about 10:10) said even in his 338LM, he can control the recoil effectively and the reticle only moves within 2MOA without a sling.

I'm with @ZQLewis - learn to use a sling properly and shoot off your knees or over a pack, and you will never need to cart about a heavy silly clunky rifle unbalancing catch on everything bipod again - you will spot your shots and know what has happened with the animal just shot, without needing someone spotting, (unlike a certain tv production that lets children shoot at animals with a high powered rifle on a bipod with no hold at all) if it's only targets and you are that concerned about having any movement, drag a lump of concrete with you and screw your rifle down, and use a piece of string to pull the trigger so you don't have to hold it.