Is registration number of any relevance to A-cat rifles?

I watched some youtube vid how to paint a rifle and the guy pointed out to put a tape over the registration number so you don't paint over it. That was a very useful tip because I didn't even consider that my rifle had a registration number (the number is so small I could barely see it until I looked carefully for it).

That got me thinking out of curiosity, do registration numbers have any relevance to A-cat rifles at all? Is it illegal to have a rifle without a readible registration number or would that be completely irrelevant for an A-cat anyway?

I understand it’s more about traceability if stolen. Proves ownership easily.

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Originally Posted by SiB

I understand it’s more about traceability if stolen. Proves ownership easily.

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This is a large part of it. It can also identify the age of the rifle. When you have several tikkas in the same calibre in the same stock etc, then which one is yours and which one your mates? Serial numbers are not registration numbers. Probably best to think of them as a sequence number which identifies a particular rifle to when it was made. A registration number is a different thing. Think of your motor vehicle....The registration number is the plate.The Serial number is the VIN. You can change a registration number as this is a number plate allocated to that vehicle in NZ but the serial number is an identifying number issued by the maker so they know which car it is (model / make / age etc.

Thanks!
That makes me curious, are these numbers in any way NZ specific, or are they just added by the manufacturer regardless of which country they will be sold? One of my rifles contains the letters NZ on the serial, but could be a co-incidence becasue I've seen the same kind of rifle in NZ have "AZ" where mine says "NZ"

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Originally Posted by SiB

I understand it’s more about traceability if stolen. Proves ownership easily.

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I guess first things first, I should start actually writing down these serials then?

I'm not entirely sure how it PROVES ownership, I could have just written down someone elses serial number and then years later claim that it's mine that was stolen, however I see how it could at least help somewhat in implying ownership.

S/N's are pretty easy to remove though. best way is by electric arc as it removes all stress introduced stamped on numbers

It is a legal requirement for firearms in NZ to have a serial number (Arms Regulations 1992, Section 12) even though there is no registration for A cat firearms (I often use the date of completion for any I manufacture, eg; 120718). It has always been a popular thing in US based web sites to delete the serial number of firearms in photos. I don't think it has any particular relevance in NZ but there is always some arsehole looking for an angle so it probably pays to exersize caution.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

It is a legal requirement for firearms in NZ to have a serial number (Arms Regulations 1992, Section 12) even though there is no registration for A cat firearms (I often use the date of completion for any I manufacture, eg; 120718). It has always been a popular thing in US based web sites to delete the serial number of firearms in photos. I don't think it has any particular relevance in NZ but there is always some arsehole looking for an angle so it probably pays to exersize caution.

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In NZ you are not allowed to transfer ownership of a firearm without a serial number, I think that is the specific law.

If you made yourself a gun, it's OK not to have a number on it AFAIK. Stamp an identifying number on it if someone ever wants to buy off you what you cobbled together. Similarly with your rifle, if you got it with a number and you paint it out that is not a problem, but probably need it visible if transferring the firearm to someone else (whether by sale, gift or loan).

Someone please delete the @gonetropo posting two above this - far too useful knowledge to have out there IMHO.

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Originally Posted by gundoc

It is a legal requirement for firearms in NZ to have a serial number (Arms Regulations 1992, Section 12) even though there is no registration for A cat firearms

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Section 12 only says Pistols, MSSAs and Restricted Weapons require a identification/serial number within 30 days of importation. No mention of A-cat firearms.

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Originally Posted by Cordite

In NZ you are not allowed to transfer ownership of a firearm without a serial number, I think that is the specific law.

If you made yourself a gun, it's OK not to have a number on it AFAIK. Stamp an identifying number on it if someone ever wants to buy off you what you cobbled together. Similarly with your rifle, if you got it with a number and you paint it out that is not a problem, but probably need it visible if transferring the firearm to someone else (whether by sale, gift or loan).

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Section 27 of the Arms Regulations only states a Pistol, MSSA or Restricted Weapon must have a identification/serial number upon transfer to another permitted person.

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As far as I can tell, at no time during local manufacture, importation, transfer or ownership does an A-cat firearm need an identification/serial number.

Pistols, MSSAs and Restricted Weapons require one upon import or transfer, and although not specified, I imagine upon local manufacture too, since it needs one to be registered against the owner.

Interestingly, it is not an offence to REMOVE an identification/serial number, even from a Pistol/MSSA/RW, but you'd have to put it back on before transfer.

An even more pedantic interpretation of the above is that identification/serial numbers must be STAMPED, and to have one milled/machined/engraved is insufficient.

I've got a couple of old A-cat guns with no serial numbers.

I have noticed heaps of old single shot .22s have no number. BTW I seem to remember that only dealers are allowed to make and sell anyway.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

I have noticed heaps of old single shot .22s have no number. BTW I seem to remember that only dealers are allowed to make and sell anyway.

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Only dealers are allowed to make TO sell.

Any LFAO can manufacture a firearm, just not for other people. If you make one for yourself, then sell it at a later date for whatever reason, then you’d probably be ok, but if there is a pattern of making firearms, tiring of them and selling them, you may end up with the Eye of Sauron looking your way.

Basically stretch got it. No requirement to have one unless being imported or transferred when it's an endorsed firearm.
Probably wouldn't like to test removing one on an endorsed firearm lol.

You could really mess with their data entry by using some obscure number system. No where does it say it needs to be alphanumeric.

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Originally Posted by systolic

I've got a couple of old A-cat guns with no serial numbers.

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You are probably right, I just wanted to point out that the ones I had that I thought had no serial numbers turned out to just be extremely difficult to find. (and I have 20/20 vision)

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Originally Posted by stretch

You could really mess with their data entry by using some obscure number system. No where does it say it needs to be alphanumeric.

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I haven't yet figured out why in the world this bizzare info would be useful in any shape or form, but a deeper voice inside tells me you are on to something! :D

Vetter was here yesterday to check my security after a house move. She was very good, not too intrusive didn't want me to open the safe or ask me for make/model/serial. Suggested I should take photo's o my rifles " cos theives usually remove serials and all rifles have differences (apparently even assembly-line ones!). I will do that, maybe after scribing soome mrks into the metal and a scratch or two in the stock, probably in the barrel channel or under the recoil pad. Makes sense of a sort.

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Originally Posted by keneff

Vetter was here yesterday to check my security after a house move. She was very good, not too intrusive didn't want me to open the safe or ask me for make/model/serial. Suggested I should take photo's o my rifles " cos theives usually remove serials and all rifles have differences (apparently even assembly-line ones!). I will do that, maybe after scribing soome mrks into the metal and a scratch or two in the stock, probably in the barrel channel or under the recoil pad. Makes sense of a sort.

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I strongly doubt that normal photos would be clear enough to point out production differences but doing a hidden mark (or even initials) sounds like a great idea. (well.. only secondary to conventional security of course)