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Thread: Shooting for "groups"

  1. #1
    A Better Lover Than A Shooter Ultimitsu's Avatar
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    Shooting for "groups"

    Assuming shooting for groups not for load development/ammo batch selection, but just for better groups, why not just zero the gun and aim for the target?

    Take Rambo's NZHS rimfire challenge for example, there are 5 targets which the shooter should aim for and fire 5 shots at. But the 5 target roundels are not themselves part of the scoring, only the shots' groupings are measured. Essentially then, the first shot of each group is the scoring reference which the other 4 shots are measured against. To me that just wastes 1 shot for each group. What am I missing?
    Beavis likes this.

  2. #2
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    If I'm using a round target without horizontal or vertical lines (that can be used to align with the reticle posts), I find my groupings open up as the point of aim gets bigger as the ragged hole opens up.
    If I'm shooting to test grouping, I'll dial a few MOA so that the point of impact is not going to mess with my point of aim.

  3. #3
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    You are trying to over think shooting groups.
    All shots are relative to the point of aim, so the 1st shot does count because you don't change your point of aim to where the 1st shot prints on the target.
    A 5 shot group is just that and nothing less. Just as a 10 shot group at the original POA is 10 not 9 shots
    gadgetman, Cordite and Stavanger like this.

  4. #4
    A Better Lover Than A Shooter Ultimitsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quentin View Post
    If I'm using a round target without horizontal or vertical lines (that can be used to align with the reticle posts), I find my groupings open up as the point of aim gets bigger as the ragged hole opens up.
    This makes sense. I do not find it to be an issue in practice because firstly, I do not tend to shoot more than 5 shots into the same roundel; and secondly, if you are shooting 22LrRfrom 50meters, chance of all shots touching each other all the time is pretty low as the NZHS challenge has shown. You will need really good gun and ammo for that to happen.

    But I accept that other people can see it as an issue big enough warranting the off-centre shooting.

  5. #5
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    As above, that is literally the only reason e.g don't want to destroy aim point.

    The more common reason is peoples zeros or shooting position aren't as good as they think and what was zerod yesterday is 1" to the left today...
    jakewire, 199p, Bagheera and 1 others like this.

  6. #6
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    Greetings All,
    The NZDA Wilkinson Postal Shoot has the first five shots scored for both application and group. These are shot prone. I don't know for sure what the original reason was but it does give a little extra credit for consistency. Application is scored with the scoring plate centred on the target marking centre and group is scored on the scoring plate on the group centre. The score for the group is based on which scoring ring covers all of the 5 shots. All 5 shots inside the 5 ring (125mm) gives 25 points. All 5 inside the 4 ring (200mm) 20 points and all inside the 3 ring (275mm) 15 points. Otherwise nothing. The Wilkinson targets have no visible aiming mark or scoring ring.
    Name:  20210404_130015.jpg
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    The picture shows the scoring ring on the target (I think).
    Regards Grandpamac.
    small_caliber likes this.

  7. #7
    Member Micky Duck's Avatar
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    the best target for hunting rifle Ive seen was usual bulls eye and rings and 1-2&3" below it were 1cm round dots.....if rifle zeroed 2" high you aim at the 2nd dot and your group WILL print around the bull...

  8. #8
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    I stopped shooting groups years ago. I now prefer to use a series of dots on the page and shoot those. I found I would get frustrated and exhausted from concentration with trying for the tightest group. Dots can be any size you chose.

  9. #9
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    Yep those stick on dots forme too, with thin black lines drawn on vertical and horizontal axis to help set the scope lines up.

  10. #10
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    It entirely depends what you're trying to achieve
    Micky Duck and Cordite like this.

  11. #11
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    For hunting,groups shot in a 2 inch circle at 200yds will kill anything.Deer,tahr roos are a big target.Dont waste to much ammo caus yr group moves a inch from near zero the next day.
    Micky Duck and Cordite like this.

  12. #12
    By Popular Demand gimp's Avatar
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    caus yr group moves a inch from near zero the next day.
    This is the case if:
    - you have a not particularly mechanically precise rifle, and don't fire enough rounds when zeroing/checking zero to accurately determine mean point of impact, OR
    - you have a flexible stock or a poorly bedded action, OR
    - you do not set up a consistent position and the apparent change in zero POI is due to shooter inconsistency (exacerbated by heavier recoiling rifles), OR

    A combination of the above.

  13. #13
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    you have to be able to shoot a group or you will not know if your rifle is accurate or the ammo, and you can not know whether your rifle is sighted in.

    tHere are two reasons to shoot a group (except for a competition)
    you shoot a group anywhere on the target to test accuracy. it doesnt matter if you hit the aiming point, its the size of the group that matters.
    if you want to sight it in then move the point of impact to where you want it to hit on the target.
    Micky Duck likes this.

  14. #14
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    Have a go at asymmetrical targets. What silhouette (steel knock down) shooting does is break your brains obsession with the centre pip.
    Micky Duck and norsk like this.

  15. #15
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    Group practice still shows you how reliable your hold is on a given day. Its a perishable skil. Most of us Aucklanders are going to be soon reminded of this next time we try to compete haha. Hopefully certain creedmoor guys are more rusty than most... ��
    Bagheera likes this.

 

 

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