Spend money on a spotting scope or buy a scope with higher magnification?

Wanting a sanity check here to find out if my logic is flawed.

I have a 7mm-08 with a cheap Niko Sterling 3-9x40 scope attached. It came with the rifle when I bought it and it works fine for my purposes in the bush. However when sighting it in and for general target shooting I have a hard time seeing the holes in targets at 100 yards.

I have recently acquired a 308 which I plan to use mainly for range shooting as it's cheaper to feed. It came without a scope so I need to buy one. I don't plan on shooting super long distances, as long as I can see where I've hit at 200 - 300 yards tops then great.

In an ideal world I'd buy a good quality scope for the Howa and a good quality spotting scope to see where I'm hitting. However it's not an ideal world and funds are limited. The cheap spotting scopes I've tried in the past were terrible and almost not even worth using IMO. It seems to be a case of "buy once, cry once" with them.

I am wondering if I could get away with buying a scope that has high magnification so that I can see holes in targets instead of buying a separate spotting scope. Thoughts, opinions, similar experiences anyone?

when you get up to 14 x in a scope you can see bullet holes BUT its not as good as 9x in poor light and the lack of low end x sucks... a good pair of 10x binos solve your issues and are oh so useful for hunting.... or just walk up and look at target.
if you dont hunt/shoot past 300 yards,top end magnification is going to be more weight/size /expence you just wont use.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

when you get up to 14 x in a scope you can see bullet holes BUT its not as good as 9x in poor light and the lack of low end x sucks... a good pair of 10x binos solve your issues and are oh so useful for hunting.... or just walk up and look at target.
if you dont hunt/shoot past 300 yards,top end magnification is going to be more weight/size /expence you just wont use.

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Thanks that’s a good point re binos I hadn’t thought about.

If you don’t already have good binos then that’s definitely the best investment. These are invaluable when hunting and spotting game. After that consider good scope like a 2or3-12 or 3-15 or 18. You won’t regret buying quality optics

I had a VX5 and could see where I hit the target at 300m on 15x.

I wholeheartedly agree with the above sentiments - you will never regret buying the best optics you can afford.

If you don't have binos yet and are already going hunting then that seems to be the logical next move - get the best you can stretch to now.

Are you range shooting at an official range or on private land? If you're on a club range of some kind you can usually get a helpful person to lend you a spotter or spot for you. And by getting to know others there you may find a good quality secondhand scope to buy for the range shooting part.

From a different angle - did you get the 308 for a specific discipline or purely for the cheaper ammo reason? Can we assume you're not reloading your ammo yet?

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Originally Posted by Steelisreal

I wholeheartedly agree with the above sentiments - you will never regret buying the best optics you can afford.

If you don't have binos yet and are already going hunting then that seems to be the logical next move - get the best you can stretch to now.

Are you range shooting at an official range or on private land? If you're on a club range of some kind you can usually get a helpful person to lend you a spotter or spot for you. And by getting to know others there you may find a good quality secondhand scope to buy for the range shooting part.

From a different angle - did you get the 308 for a specific discipline or purely for the cheaper ammo reason? Can we assume you're not reloading your ammo yet?

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I don’t have any binos but then again my only hunting has been central north island bush where I’ve never really found them necessary. Maybe it’s a case of not missing what I’ve never had. Hopefully in future I end up doing some more varied hunting where binos would be useful.

So far most of the range shooting I’ve done has been on private land but I plan on joining my local NZDA branch when I get around to it and hopefully shooting there.

I got the 308 mainly because of ammo availability and price. Buying 7mm-08 the other week from my local H&F they were limiting sales to 2 boxes per person and they had only just received a little bit of stock. I am not into reloading but can see myself getting there at some point in future.

7mm-08 would probably be nicer for range shooting than 308 due to being a bit milder on the shoulder but I’m sure I’ll manage.

and a .223 would be nicer still...and cheaper to feed...and arguably more versitile as will fit in below the 7mm-08 where as the .308 pretty much fills same niche.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

and a .223 would be nicer still...and cheaper to feed...and arguably more versitile as will fit in below the 7mm-08 where as the .308 pretty much fills same niche.

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Yes a 223 could be a good option. There seems to be a lot of ammo floating around that isn’t being used since Cindy made us all safer. If I need to sneak another rifle past the mrs I’ll say that Micky Duck on the internet said I needed it so it’s ok [emoji3]

Take this for what it's worth.
I'm not a "gun guy", I use them for killing animals and that's about it.
I practice several times before each season because I like to have confidence and be ethical.
I have found that shooting a group at 200/300/400 yards and then walking up to the target helps me think about my shooting and think about where my group might be depending on how the shots felt.

A middle ground might be getting a good pair of 12x binos and walking halfway and looking with them :)

Joe's point of anticipating where shots went based on feel is very good, shooting groups with the zoom set so can't see impacts, theories where they went based on shot feel, then checking is a good practice drill. When shooting at an animal/target that doesn't have anything around it to tell you where the shot fell will see you relying on that feel and knowing if your shot was bad or need to adjust dope

Surprised no one has asked how much you have to spend on glass.
I'd imagine you'd be better off putting all the budget into a scope rather than a medicore scope and a medicore spotter.

I'd also say buying a 223 would be much better than a 308 if you are worried about cheap practice, even a good accurate 22 would be a good option.

If you think you'll be shooting 100 rounds a year of practice ammo it won't make much difference but 100 rounds a month and it'd be worth going 22e or an accurate 22.

Also an ex north island bush hunter and agree never even consider the need for binos until moving south. Bought a cheap but reasonable spotting scoce that is small & light weight, it about 20 years old, the brand is one that, my eyes seem to like, Nikon. Think I paid about 250 for so there are options, put a passive search on TM.

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Originally Posted by Beetroot

Surprised no one has asked how much you have to spend on glass.
I'd imagine you'd be better off putting all the budget into a scope rather than a medicore scope and a medicore spotter.

I'd also say buying a 223 would be much better than a 308 if you are worried about cheap practice, even a good accurate 22 would be a good option.

If you think you'll be shooting 100 rounds a year of practice ammo it won't make much difference but 100 rounds a month and it'd be worth going 22e or an accurate 22.

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In reality I probably don't shoot enough for the price to make that much of a difference. So in that sense price is a smaller factor than availability. You can usually find .308 floating around cheaper than 7mm-08 anyway.

In your opinion at what price point do you exit mediocre scope territory and get to the better stuff?

ooooh now there is a thousand dollar question...and the other end of it is just as controversial...at what point do you STOP getting any more for your dollar???
I dont buy new....with pretty much anything sporting related...so many fellas buy,try then flick on at what is sometimes a huge loss.
personally Im more than happy with any scope I own that has leupold printed on the side of it....I dont dial.....I dont need side focus...have one scope with parralax correction,but it normally gets chucked on hundred yards and stays there....

$500 2nd hand buys a lot of scope..... the 3x9x40 leupold freedom I bought 2nd had for ??? $350 ?? think it was is good value for money,its clear,holds its zero ...all I want,need....job done. you could go 4x14x40mm for similar money and get the higher top end for range work easy enough for similar $$$$

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

ooooh now there is a thousand dollar question...and the other end of it is just as controversial...at what point do you STOP getting any more for your dollar???
I dont buy new....with pretty much anything sporting related...so many fellas buy,try then flick on at what is sometimes a huge loss.
personally Im more than happy with any scope I own that has leupold printed on the side of it....I dont dial.....I dont need side focus...have one scope with parralax correction,but it normally gets chucked on hundred yards and stays there....

$500 2nd hand buys a lot of scope..... the 3x9x40 leupold freedom I bought 2nd had for ??? $350 ?? think it was is good value for money,its clear,holds its zero ...all I want,need....job done. you could go 4x14x40mm for similar money and get the higher top end for range work easy enough for similar $$$$

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I've been keeping an eye on here and big yellow for a second hand scope that would suit but haven't seen one yet. Agree re the 14x scope, would be nice to get something that goes a bit higher than my current 3-9. Reloaders looks like they have a decent selection of new scopes in the $500 - $1000 range and I've been meaning to stop in there for a visit but never seem to be going past Onehunga when they're open.

I went through the same exercises about 2 years ago, here are my thoughts on it now:

9x magnification seems to be borderline for my eyes to see bullet holes at 100m depending on the glass quality. It is doable with the likes of VX Freedom, Fullfield II and Diamondback level of quality, but 12x definitely makes it easier. However since your scope's max magnification is 9x, I wouldn't bother getting another scope. As others mentioned, the optical quality of a typical 3-12x scope deteriorates quick once you get above 10x. The extra magnification offers better ability for spotting bullet holes on the range, but is unlikely to add any value for hunting, especially during low light.

Instead of a spotting scope, I ended up spending $180 on a secondhand camera with a 40x zoom. (Canon 740HS). It was used to spot bullet holes at the range without trouble. A zoom camera has a few advantages over a spotting scope:
1. Cheaper - To do the same job with a spotting scope you may need to spend significantly more
2. Can track shots by taking a photo of the target after each shot
3. Can take footage of live animals from long distances away
4. Lighter to carry and takes less room for hunting trips

Those Nikko Stirlings that come in package deals have actually got decent optical quality in my experience.
So I suggest keeping your setup as it is, buy a $200~$500 secondhand zoom camera, you're then covered for the range and the hills.

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Originally Posted by Synthetic

I went through the same exercises about 2 years ago, here are my thoughts on it now:

9x magnification seems to be borderline for my eyes to see bullet holes at 100m depending on the glass quality. It is doable with the likes of VX Freedom, Fullfield II and Diamondback level of quality, but 12x definitely makes it easier. However since your scope's max magnification is 9x, I wouldn't bother getting another scope. As others mentioned, the optical quality of a typical 3-12x scope deteriorates quick once you get above 10x. The extra magnification offers better ability for spotting bullet holes on the range, but is unlikely to add any value for hunting, especially during low light.

Instead of a spotting scope, I ended up spending $180 on a secondhand camera with a 40x zoom. (Canon 740HS). It was used to spot bullet holes at the range without trouble. A zoom camera has a few advantages over a spotting scope:
1. Cheaper - To do the same job with a spotting scope you may need to spend significantly more
2. Can track shots by taking a photo of the target after each shot
3. Can take footage of live animals from long distances away
4. Lighter to carry and takes less room for hunting trips

Those Nikko Stirlings that come in package deals have actually got decent optical quality in my experience.
So I suggest keeping your setup as it is, buy a $200~$500 secondhand zoom camera, you're then covered for the range and the hills.

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You might be right about solving the problem for cheap with a camera. There's a 45x zoom camera local to me on Faceache marketplace for $80 that looks half decent. I'm not really sure what image quality is like at 100 yards but regardless it would be a relatively cheap experiment. Then I'd have more money left over for a better scope... could be good.

Agree re 9x being borderline. I can see the holes, it's just that sometimes it's difficult, especially if you hit in the dark part of the target. I don't have any experience using expensive or high quality scopes so can't comment on the difference.

I bought the 7mm-08 off a mate who replaced the scope when he sold it to me as the old one had broken. I think it was about $250 - $300. I've been more than happy with it, it even has an illuminated dot in the reticle which sounds gimmicky but so far has actually been very handy to quickly get on target in low light bush settings.

Large sized splatter targets are available and make spotting bullet impacts at 300m pretty easy with a decent scope.

Attachment 194916
6.5*55 @ 300m

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Originally Posted by Fatberg

In your opinion at what price point do you exit mediocre scope territory and get to the better stuff?

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As others have said, a big can of worms here.
In some ways I've become a complete scope snob, I always had scopes that were in the $400-$800 range but one day a buddy bought a VX6 and I have been a changed man ever since.

Personally I think $2000 is where you start getting into diminishing returns, I've been through a few different scopes in later years and don't think I'd want anything less than a VX5 these days. The glass is a notable step up from lesser scopes but more than anything else the FOV is much better than most other scopes, and the eyebox is much more forgiving (the eye/head position isn't as sensitive).

$3000+ Japanese/European glass is definitely better than what you'll find in the VX5 but the jump is not the same as going from a cheaper Vortex or VX3 to a VX5/VX6.
After you get to VX5 level of scope you really need to want a particular set of specification or "need" better glass to warrant anything better, if you just want a SFP duplex reticle in a scope you can dial, a VX5 3-15x44 with a Firedot duplex is very very hard to beat for the money.

The most recenty scope I bought was an Athlon for well under $1000, many reviews said the glass was "clear" and it gave up nothing to higher end glass, all of which was totally not true. I'm not an optic expert by any stretch but there is a lot more to scope glass than looking through a scope for 30 seconds and thinking it looks nice.

I'm not in a position to recomend many hunting scopes as I like FFP in everything these days (which is not the norm based on most views on this forum) but if you can find a used VX5 3-15 for a good price you'll be right.

To me a VX3 3.5-10x40 has the perfect balance between affordability, performance, reliability, ruggedness, weight and aesthetics.
It is capable of covering such a wide variety of hunting situations, IMO it might be THE best hunting scope ever made.

Agreed. That 2k-2.5k is where the scopes are so good, it can be hard to justify more. The Z5 swaro and VX5 options are fantastic.

In saying that, i run 2 x Swarovski Z8i 3.5-28x50 BT so i am crap at listening to my own advice.

Around that $1200 is a sweet spot. VX3s, Burris Signature HD, Maybe the odd Swarovski Z3

I found a cheap camera on FB marketplace that has a 45x optical zoom and bought that. I haven't had a chance to test it on a target yet but from playing around with it I think it will work just fine.

More money to spend on a scope so thank you for all the suggestions.

My 2c is that very few people actually use a spotting scope on the range these days . They can see their shots well enough with their telescopic sight. Its very hard to see shot holes even at 200m even with a good spotting scope. They do blend in with the aiming point even if you use a red target and when two shots touch thats difficult to be sure of too.