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Thread: Trying to be a bit precise

  1. #1
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    Trying to be a bit precise

    Hi all,

    Bought a new scope rings rail etc to try to stretch the legs out on my .243. Bore sighted it, got it on paper, shot a 3 shot group, taking time between shots to check target (200m).

    First group was 17mm and great for elevation, though 1.5" to the right. 3 clicks left to take it to center, next group was great for windage but 1.5" high????? I double checked that I had turned the correct knob as was my first thought.

    So two questions;

    1,Could this be things heating up shifting the group?

    2, I have not done any load development for the rifle, I just load 95gr sst at max load and F/L size. I can see there may be some gain in neck sizing, is there anything else I should be doing? Less than an inch consistently at 200m is great to me, but I read some of you guys are doing amazing things, should I push this further?

    Thanks Lars

  2. #2
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    when i shoot groups to get it aligned i walk to the target after every shot and mark each hole to allow cooling time to avoid as much as possible any poi change from heat. once you have it shooting where you want it just check it at all the ranges you will shoot at. 17mm group at 200m seems pretty good to me.

  3. #3
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    A) Yes possibly. B) Could also be scope out of level or erector tube rolling over the adjuster. How far did you wind it off centre to boresight it?

    What scope?

    "Loading at max" without checking it for pressure in your gun?? Takes all sorts I suppose.
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  4. #4
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    "Should you push it further" - entirely up to you. Shooting that tight I personally wouldn't bother, but it's almost tempting to see just how much smaller you could get it.
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  5. #5
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    Rifle is an old t3 light stainless with greystone guns full length suppressor (think that's the correct way of describing it). Load is 35gr ar2208, no.200 primer, 95gr hornady sst. Got the load from adi website, no pressure signs. Scope is 3-18x44 strike eagle.

  6. #6
    Bah, humbug ! Frogfeatures's Avatar
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    ADI recommended ‘max loads’ have decreased over the years, fear of litigation, I guess
    I load 37gr 2208 with Hornady 87 gr HPBT’s
    I don’t think shooting 2 groups gives you enough Info.
    Is the barrel floated ?
    Bill999 likes this.
    He nui to ngaromanga, he iti to putanga.

    You depart with mighty boasts, but you come back having done little.
    Sounds like a typical hunting trip !

  7. #7
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    I'm hoping to get out next weekend to have another shoot, I called it a day after the second group went high. Barrel is free floated, checked with a couple of layers of paper while on its bipod.

  8. #8
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    For the record, and dont all go rush out and blow your faces off then blame me, I have never found pressure at adi max load in a heap of different rifles and calibers
    #375GANG....

  9. #9
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    That to me could easily be a shooter technique type of cause to the group shifting, and to be fair we need a lot more info than what you have provided. Changing positions on the stock between groups, changing lighting conditions, changes in weather conditions, bipod positioning, and a heap of other factors could be contributing.

    If you are getting consistent group sizes of that then you don't have much to worry about but what you do need is a lot more data.
    rugerman and Puffin like this.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauser308 View Post
    That to me could easily be a shooter technique type of cause to the group shifting, and to be fair we need a lot more info than what you have provided. Changing positions on the stock between groups, changing lighting conditions, changes in weather conditions, bipod positioning, and a heap of other factors could be contributing.

    If you are getting consistent group sizes of that then you don't have much to worry about but what you do need is a lot more data.
    Agree with Mauser308 above. Stop faffing around between shots, just shoot your group (I assume three shots) without changing your position. Don't bother to let the barrel cool between shots just shoot taking care to keep everything the same. This will give you a good indication of what the rile can do. Also don't forget to check your zero in as near to the position that you are likely to use when shooting at game. This may give a zero that is different to your bench zero so adjustment will be needed. If you are shooting of a bipod on a bench make sure there is some padding under the bipod feet like a bit of sleeping pad. Consistent technique is the key to consistent accuracy. Practice using your field position not the bench.
    Regards Grandpamac.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauser308 View Post
    That to me could easily be a shooter technique type of cause to the group shifting, and to be fair we need a lot more info than what you have provided. Changing positions on the stock between groups, changing lighting conditions, changes in weather conditions, bipod positioning, and a heap of other factors could be contributing.

    If you are getting consistent group sizes of that then you don't have much to worry about but what you do need is a lot more data.
    To be fair if he can stack them like that walking/driving 400m between each shot, he's probably got the technique sorted
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    At PC now so I can type a longer reply:

    I consider a "group" to be 5 or better 10 shots. People shoot 3 then have a "flyer" and ignore it... but if they shot another 7 they'd probably know why.

    Still seems like a scope issue to me. I'd go back to basic, re-mount the rail, align/lap in the rings. Optically centre your reticle. Shoot 10.

    Anything you can do to improve consistency in reloading will in theory benefit accuracy. I ladder-test for load development. Your hottest load may not be the most accurate, similarly you might find you can go over book max and not face excessive pressure.
    Either start projectiles jammed 0.01 for your ladder test, or 0.02 off the lands (0.02 seems to be a "magic number" and also generally fits and feeds in magazines).
    Many believe jamming increases accuracy but it also increases pressure. If you start jammed then you don't have to dial back powder when playing with seating depth, unless you start compressing.
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    Great feedback do far guys, many thanks. I'm pretty sure I'm in the stone age compared to most of you, I had always been a "hunter" and not much of a shooter and haven't gone down this road before. The projectiles are exactly "two layers of green masking tape" off the lands, which fits in the mag fine. I was shooting off my Remington bipod while lying on a ute tray cover on the wet grass with my jacket rolled up under the stock, this was my attempt to take myself out of the equation as much as possible while shooting.

    As far as mounting, I am no pro, but I was confident in how I did it, degreased and thread locked everything except for top half of rings (warne30mm rings leupold rail), I did not lap the rings, but I did make sure they were pushed forward onto the rail to prevent them moving under recoil and sat the scope on there before final tighten.

    My next trip out to the farm I'll try a couple of things,

    More data on 3 shot groups.
    7-10 shot groups.

    I'll hopefully come back to this thread with photos to get some help from you guys to "decode" results.

    There may be some inputs on my end that may be impacting results, shoulder reconstructions have me a bit "soft"

    Anything else you guys recommend?

  14. #14
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    From https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....g-101-a-53780/
    :
    Quote Originally Posted by mimms View Post
    When fitting scopes I will "zero" the scope. That is, set windage and elevation in the middle of their adjustment, this has the crosshair optically centred with least chance of abberation or parrallax. (And if you're inclined to twiddle turrets, gives you max avail adjustment)
    If rings aren't good I will clean them up with a file to 90%+ contact, achieves same as lapping, just without using lapping tool. (I'm not opposed to lapping tools, but if I can get away without grinding paste near a gun, I will)
    I fit the bottom half of rings to the gun and lay the tube in it and "boresight", if it's too far left or right I will swap the rings front to back, or 180 degrees (one screw left and one right, ie) to get it as close as possible. Then put the top halves on and nip them up (this has NAF perfect contact between rings-scope body), slack the mounts and torque the top, then torque the mounts, boresight again then zero by shooting.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larrygoat View Post
    Great feedback do far guys, many thanks. I'm pretty sure I'm in the stone age compared to most of you, I had always been a "hunter" and not much of a shooter and haven't gone down this road before. The projectiles are exactly "two layers of green masking tape" off the lands, which fits in the mag fine. I was shooting off my Remington bipod while lying on a ute tray cover on the wet grass with my jacket rolled up under the stock, this was my attempt to take myself out of the equation as much as possible while shooting.

    As far as mounting, I am no pro, but I was confident in how I did it, degreased and thread locked everything except for top half of rings (warne30mm rings leupold rail), I did not lap the rings, but I did make sure they were pushed forward onto the rail to prevent them moving under recoil and sat the scope on there before final tighten.

    My next trip out to the farm I'll try a couple of things,

    More data on 3 shot groups.
    7-10 shot groups.

    I'll hopefully come back to this thread with photos to get some help from you guys to "decode" results.

    There may be some inputs on my end that may be impacting results, shoulder reconstructions have me a bit "soft"

    Anything else you guys recommend?
    Don't sell yourself short. Holding <1/2 MOA is something some "hunters" never achieve.
    Not sure about the masking tape thing, never heard that one before, but if it works for you then roll with it. Adjusting seating depth could lead to tighter groups.

    Bipods -can- lead to inconsistency. You either have to load them equally every time, or, some rifles prefer to be shot free-recoil off a 'pod. Article: https://www.6mmbr.com/TacticalFroggyA1.html
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