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Terminator Black Watch


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  1. #1
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Terminator Products calibres

    I have focused on making/using calibres that are an improvement on the standard offerings, standard mag fitting if at all possible with long throating, easy/cheap to make brass for & use standard readily available dies instead of having go down the custom die route which can get very expensive & time consuming.

    I have been there with the 375/408 imp, well worth it but not for most guys, the 375 Lil'Terminator was a great learning tool

    I want to run the calibres I offer on readily available ADI powders, they may not be the fastest in some of the cases but generally they are the most temperature stable, cleanest & cheapest/easiest to get.

    I'm not interested in going down the barrel burning, high volume, turbo charged nitro filled hot rod case route, I'm too old for that stuff & will leave it for others to do.

    The worst one I have currently is the 6.5 saum which is more sensible than wild.

    I can't see the sense in having a rifle that you have to have a round count for to keep it properly tuned, some of them every 50 rounds & you need to consider its throat life before you pull the trigger.

    Some of the large case capacity 7mms especially will not keep shooting the higher BC pills for their entire "quoted life" & they need to go to more conservative bullet profiles to continue to shoot well once the throat becomes roughed up/worn & becomes hard on the jackets.

    This happens to all "over bore" cartridges to a certain degree whether they are .224 or .50, you still have all that powder going through the throat, whether it is ball or stick it still hurts them, it is the price of speed

    They are all very well & good & super cool, but for the average shooter this starts to get old real quick, most of those rounds are best suited to long range shooting which requires plenty of practice with the rifle you are going to use to become & keep proficient at.

    I hope to be able to offer my calibres in "Semi Custom" to keep the costs down & provide clients with something that is a little different, better than a standard off the shelf rifle.

    A full custom 6-204 costs basically the same a 338 build, the comsumables will be cheaper but that is about it.

    Using my Terminator range of muzzle brakes on the bigger calibres makes them even more attractive to use.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg View Post
    I can't see the sense in having a rifle that you have to have a round count for to keep it properly tuned, some of them every 50 rounds & you need to consider its throat life before you pull the trigger.

    Some of the large case capacity 7mms especially will not keep shooting the higher BC pills for their entire "quoted life" & they need to go to more conservative bullet profiles to continue to shoot well once the throat becomes roughed up/worn & becomes hard on the jackets.
    Can you explain this a bit more, please, for the uninitiated. Is it because some projectiles usually need to be jammed in the lands in order to be accurate, and the lands end up burnt out for a good way down the barrel?

  3. #3
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bremic View Post
    Can you explain this a bit more, please, for the uninitiated. Is it because some projectiles usually need to be jammed in the lands in order to be accurate, and the lands end up burnt out for a good way down the barrel?
    Yes that can be part of it.

    As I understand it....
    Quite often with the big overbore cartridges it will be all good for 50-150 rounds then it can start to turn to custard.
    The heavy, high bc pills can be quite delicate in the jackets.
    So generally they will work fine for a while then they need to be retuned, generally longer o/a length & slowed down a little, then when that stops providing the answer a new bullet needs to be used like a SMK or Accubond etc which have a lower BC, this retuning can be as often as every 50 rounds on some of the biggest 7mms .....
    Basically the bullets get "hurt" when forced into the barrel at extreme pressures & speed especially as the barrel ages, it gets very rough with heat cracking etc, some of the bullets cope better than others with this & some barrels wear less than others but it is very hard to determine exactly how much by, just like the effect of different powder types.

    The newer 180 Berger jackets are thicker & stronger to help minimise this but the trade off is the bullets don't expand on game as well as they could & will often pencil through beyond say 800 yards, which is where you want them to work & is why you are pushing high BC bullets fast in the first place......
    Some people have started annealing the jackets to soften the bullets which could be the answer ?

    This isn't such a problem with the bigger calibres as they don't tend to get such a hard time, except say the 338/408, but the GenII & SMK handle well but the barrel still won't last say 850 rounds, often much less.
    The GenI 300 Berger was a huge embarrassment for Berger, they made it nice & soft for the little 338s but the big 338s launched it too hard & it couldn't cope, so they made a thicker jacketed GenII which solved the problem.
    The 30, 338, 375s etc will generally last longer because of the bore size, a bigger bore will always resist wear better than a smaller one because it is easier for the powder/heat to get through it.

    There will always be a place for the smaller calibres, but it is much easier to shoot at long range with a big high BC projectile, the bigger the better generally.
    The 300gr 338s have such a high BC & can be sent at 2800 fps easily in a portable lightweight rifle.
    They kill well & have a lot of energy, the extra weight helps with wind a little more than the BC implies in my opinion.

    With the newer generation of muzzle brakes & hearing protection they are very easy to use with minimal recoil & ground disturbance

    A case in point would be my GF, the first two animals she shot were rabbits at 190-200 yards with my 204, then she shot a Red hind at 525 with my 338 Lapua imp.
    She has shot steel before on several occasions out past 1000yards but would only have fired 50-100 rounds total.

  4. #4
    Kiwishooter
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    Greg what calibers do you have reamers for? Are you doing the gunsmithing (chambering/fitting action, truing) yourself? Also what is the accuracy guarantee??

  5. #5
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwishooter View Post
    Greg what calibers do you have reamers for? Are you doing the gunsmithing (chambering/fitting action, truing) yourself? Also what is the accuracy guarantee??
    I have reamers for or on the way for.
    224-204, 244-204, 6.5mmSaum, 280Ai, 30-280Ai, 7mm-375R & 30-375R long for 700s & short for T3s, 338 Edge, 338 Norma, 375 Lil'Terminator.
    I also have access to many more calibres.
    I get gunsmiths to do the metal work.
    I do the bedding, tuning, load development & accuracy work.
    I consider 0.7 moa at 100 to be minimum acceptable accuracy, all rifles will achieve this & be sent out with targets.
    Obviously the lighter, larger calibres are harder to control/shoot than the smaller ones.
    The 338 Edges I have sold have all shot sub 1/2 and better.
    All the 280ai & up calibres will have a Terminator brake fitted as standard if required.
    Fluted bolts & barrels are also a standard feature.
    Tikkas will have Limbsaver recoil pads with SS screws & a half bolt feature as standard.
    The 700s will have alloy bolt shrouds & lightweight firing pins as standard.
    20moa alloy EGW & Weaver Tactical rails are standard on the 6.5 & greater calibres if required.
    Various aftermaket stocks are available.
    Last edited by Kiwi Greg; 06-07-2012 at 10:42 PM. Reason: my spelling still sucks...

  6. #6
    Member crnkin's Avatar
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    What do you do for dies Greg?

    Chris

  7. #7
    Terminator Products Kiwi Greg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crnkin View Post
    What do you do for dies Greg?

    Chris
    Various brands of brass & dies available for all my calibres Chris.

    Easy & economical to get is one of the reasons I have chosen the calibres I have

    Most guys can't be bothered with the hassel & pain in the wallet that comes with some of the wildcats.

 

 

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