goat stew differing results, any ideas ?

hey team on a recent trip I managed to bag a few goats which I bought home and basically boned it all out and diced it up for stews and curries.
One night this week the wife made a stew that required beer (ale) in the recipe and it was amazingly good and incredibly tender like literally fall apart tender.
Later this week she made a different stew recipe that didn't use beer and the goat was quite chewy, still tasted good but wasn't tender like the previous batch, is the beer the difference ? is there anything else I can marinade the goat in to stop it from being chewy ? anyone got any thoughts or experience in this ?
thanks

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Originally Posted by dannyb

hey team on a recent trip I managed to bag a few goats which I bought home and basically boned it all out and diced it up for stews and curries.
One night this week the wife made a stew that required beer (ale) in the recipe and it was amazingly good and incredibly tender like literally fall apart tender.
Later this week she made a different stew recipe that didn't use beer and the goat was quite chewy, still tasted good but wasn't tender like the previous batch, is the beer the difference ? is there anything else I can marinade the goat in to stop it from being chewy ? anyone got any thoughts or experience in this ?
thanks

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Try kiwifruit, but not for overnite

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Originally Posted by Steve123

Try kiwifruit, but not for overnite

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interesting.... for how long ?

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Originally Posted by Steve123

Try kiwifruit, but not for overnite

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Lol I tried it with a chewy old stag once... Left it overnight and in the morning I was faced with a staggy kiwifruit smoothie

Were the cuts used the same both times?
Certain cuts stew better than others.

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Originally Posted by Moutere

Were the cuts used the same both times?
Certain cuts stew better than others.

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nah I literally just boned the whole animal out and cubed the lot then vac sealed it in lots....in hind sight maybe I should have seperated it into different cuts but I had 6 to do and it was a fair whack of work.....I guess maybe I just need to check on it whilst cooking and adjust the cook time to suit.

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Originally Posted by mimms2

Could be any number of things. Same beer? Same temp? Same timing? And it can be a damn fine tuned thing as well.

Enzyme activity is what "ages" meat the theory behind adding beer afaik is to give the enzymes something to eat other than meat, and the water in beer will spread/inoculate the whole piece.

Anything acidic will attack meat protein structure. Heat and time works too.

Generally if stewing (dutch oven) you brown the meat first to seal the sides, then dial it down and add everything else.

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yeah fair call I didn't cook either the missus did and generally she just follows the recipe to the word no adjusting for different variables.
1 recipe called for beer (I used a Pilsner), the other didn't and just used stock and tinned tomatoes I think.
the beer recipe by far was nicer but I wonder if I'm being swayed just because it was a lot more tender as in reality they both were pretty good.
I may have to fiddle a bit with the cook times.

I gave some boned and diced goat to a mates wife and she hassled me for taking the bones out!
Marrow for flavor etc.
So next time I smashed it all to pieces with a big cleaver and was super easy, thought I was onto something...
She hasseled me for all the fine splinters of bone in it!

I reckon, bone it all out, put meat aside.
Then cleaver the bones etc up into bits, put em in a giant 'tea bag' or something like that to prevent the small fragments of bone getting into the stew.
Chuck the tea bag in the pot with the rest of the stew and cook it.
Pull the bag out before dishing up.

Now to find or make a stainless steel tea bag....

As said could have been a tender cut to start with and also cooking method the lower and slower the better. Cooking from frozen or fresh makes a difference to.

Goat I’ve used has generally been treated thus. First method is to soak in water with a good glug of white vinegar as it removes gamey taste somewhat and can lighten meat colour. Another method is to add some vinegar to stew as it tenderises meat. Vinegar with sugar will offer sweet n sour. Third and most personally favoured by me is to brown meat on bbq bars so you get brown striped colouring all over meat. Thereafter, dust with cornflour, sprinkle ginger over and place a good dollop of honey on top before putting in crockpot. Flour and honey form a gravy that meat can be rolled in. Pretty yum.

We slow cook most of our goat drenched in olive oil with Mediterranean dry seasonings. It's great to eat, but occasionally take it off the bone and add to a curry or stew for a change. We eat a lot of goat!

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Originally Posted by 40mm

I gave some boned and diced goat to a mates wife and she hassled me for taking the bones out!

I reckon, bone it all out, put meat aside.
Then cleaver the bones etc up into bits, put em in a giant 'tea bag' or something like that to prevent the small fragments of bone getting into the stew.
Chuck the tea bag in the pot with the rest of the stew and cook it.
Pull the bag out before dishing up.

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I cook a lot of venison and goat stews, and the best cut of all is the shanks, but not whole.
I freeze them as a whole shank. Then just before cooking, I remove the shank(s) from the freezer and use the bone saw and cut them into 3/4" disks. Using the hand saw I find the easiest way to do this is to hold the end of the shank bone in the bench vice for stability, and cut straight through the frozen meat and bone. Make sure you do it immediately after taking it out of the freezer.
Then I use a big cast iron Potjie pot and brown the meat while it is still frozen - allows you to get a really good sear without cooking the meat.
Remove the meat from the pot, brown some bacon and onion, then throw the meat back into the pot and add:
1 cup home made mead (beer will do)
1 tbl spoon apple cider vinegar per 1kg meat
1x beef oxo cube
1x vegetable oxo cube
a coating of Cape Spice Braai seasoning (don't know how much because I just shake it in from the bottle)
curry for colour and taste (don't know how much because i just sprinkle it on top from the container)
a hand full of raisins
a couple of diced carrots
salt and pepper to taste
enough water so you can just see it through the meat

I let it slow simmer with the lid on for about three hours until tender. About half an hour before cooking is done, I will add additional vegies if doing so, so that they hold together rather than turning to mush, and add some thickening.
For really tender results, start the cook at lunch time. Once it is cooked, turn it off and just leave the stew to sit. If you have a nice heavy cast iron pot, it will hold the temp in it for another hour or so which will help with tenderness, then reheat just before serving.

The bones will be in large pieces and you just serve them up on the plate. People can choose to eat the marrow or leave it be. The stew has already benefited from the exposed marrow.
@dannyb I suspect the issue between the two stews is purely temp and time. Beer docent really tenderise meat.
That said, my brother did a trial using Sprite to marinate some venison that was noticeable stronger in smell and it completely removed the staginess.

red wine is supposed to be good for meat as well.

you can try shan papaya powder meat tenderiser. can get it from indian stores

@dannyb, look up use of proteolytic enzymes to tenderise meat. It breaks down protein chains. Found in kiwifruit, tamarillo and a couple other fruits. Pineapple has heaps. If you get a sore gob after eating heaps of pineapple as a kid, that was the pineapple eating you.

Any meat can be cooked tender if you cook it slow and keep it moist.

Fat and connective tissue helps keeps meat moist and tender..why cuts like shoulder and shin or shank meat, brisket and short ribs are favored for long slow cooking. Tender cuts are not suited for slow cooking, cook them too long, even covered in liquid, and they turn into cardboard. So for e.g. beef, rump steak is ok for casserole if you brown pieces and then only give them 20-30 min in the oven in the casserole dish. Which means you "bake" the rest of the casserole ingredients somewhat and then add the meat. Shin makes a far better casserole, you brown it and cook all ingredients in the oven at the same time.

For goat I much prefer to slow cook on the bone. I will often take the shoulder and let my mate have the legs. But legs are fine if you poach them in your marinade liquid tightly covered, same as for shoulder, but for less time.

A curry is essentially a casserole. Treat it the same. If the meat is chewy you have not cooked it long enough. If it is dried out and stringy like chewing wet cardboard it is likely a tender cut that has been overcooked.

So try and fast roast or fry tender cuts, slow cook or casserole the others.

To slow cook you start with high temp..Brown the meat in a pan or casserole dish in batches on the stove top if pieces, sear a joint at 200C in an open roasting pan in the oven, turning it once, for 15min. Rub both with olive oil first. Then for either add all ingredients to the oven dish, cover tightly, foil for joint to seal the roasting dish, lid for pieces in a casserole, and turn the temp down to 100C and leave for the duration. Say 2-3 hrs for a large goat leg, 3-4 hours for a shoulder, 1.5 hours for pieces in a casserole dish. For the joint, turn the oven off but leave joint in there undisturbed for a min of another hour or until ready to serve in 2-3 hours. For the pieces remove from oven and reheat later if required.

let it rest in fridge for up to week before cooking it will help too...I do this to most meat before freezing now and it has made world of difference.

treat goat like lamb/hoggot and you wont go far wrong....yearling hind quarter is rather good roasted....

It seems I am a victim of my own time constraints, in my rush to process all 6 in limited spare time, I didn't bother seperating the different cuts, literally there are back steaks, rump, shoulder and shanks all boned out and mixed together.
Guess I'll just slow cook the lot till its tender and learn from it :yaeh am not durnk:

I know an indian guy that makes nice goat curry he uses a pressure cooker

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Originally Posted by Russian 22.

you can try shan papaya powder meat tenderiser. can get it from indian stores

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@dannyb Yogiji's in Sydenham (used to be by south city) is a great market for curry powder, spices and mixes etc. Indian supermarket. Last time I went to Pak n save currie powder was a few dollars a box of 30grams ...these guys sell it from a bulk bin by the kg!!!!!!!

https://yogijis.co.nz/

Curry powder $15 per kg
https://yogijis.co.nz/hot-curry-powder.html

Kashmiri Chilli powder $16 per kg (I use Kashmiri as it has a stronger flavour but less intense heat...)
https://yogijis.co.nz/kashmiri-chilli-powder-1kg.html

Also you did not specify Nanny , Billy or kid.. That makes a huge difference. We roast the little uns, (like milk fed lamb - so tender it falls off the bone- cannot slice it.....Nanny we treat like mutton...Billy we treat like currency (give it to the mates neighbours who are indian...) We boned out a whole lot of nanny's once to get made into sausages. they were really nice - mostly. We must have got a billy leg in the mix xomehow. Bites went something like - nice sausage, nice sausage , nice sausage , I can see the billy goat , smell the billy goat, taste the billy goat , nice sausage..... The Billys have a tougher gamier billy flavour right through the meat. It works ina strong indian curry etc as it is able to push through the spices and flavours that compete with it, but nanny meat is far more subtle and works well with milder or softer flavours such as beer / tomatoes etc....

Adding the beer (500ml?) probably lowered the temperature of the pot by a few degrees, suspect longer cooking time at a lower temp is your answer

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Originally Posted by timattalon

@dannyb Yogiji's in Sydenham (used to be by south city) is a great market for curry powder, spices and mixes etc. Indian supermarket. Last time I went to Pak n save currie powder was a few dollars a box of 30grams ...these guys sell it from a bulk bin by the kg!!!!!!!

https://yogijis.co.nz/

Curry powder $15 per kg
https://yogijis.co.nz/hot-curry-powder.html

Kashmiri Chilli powder $16 per kg (I use Kashmiri as it has a stronger flavour but less intense heat...)
https://yogijis.co.nz/kashmiri-chilli-powder-1kg.html

Also you did not specify Nanny , Billy or kid.. That makes a huge difference. We roast the little uns, (like milk fed lamb - so tender it falls off the bone- cannot slice it.....Nanny we treat like mutton...Billy we treat like currency (give it to the mates neighbours who are indian...) We boned out a whole lot of nanny's once to get made into sausages. they were really nice - mostly. We must have got a billy leg in the mix xomehow. Bites went something like - nice sausage, nice sausage , nice sausage , I can see the billy goat , smell the billy goat, taste the billy goat , nice sausage..... The Billys have a tougher gamier billy flavour right through the meat. It works ina strong indian curry etc as it is able to push through the spices and flavours that compete with it, but nanny meat is far more subtle and works well with milder or softer flavours such as beer / tomatoes etc....

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Oh yes..

Have you guys not heard of slow cookers???
I do a few stews, beef, goat, venison etc and just chuck it all in the slow cooker and leave it on low for 8 to 12 hours(8 normally fine)
Always comes out tender as and always good.
Last stew i did was line the bottom of the slow cooker with potatoes and carrots. In a fry pan fry of some onions, leeks, mushrooms , garlic.
Throw those in the slow cooker. In same pan brown off what meat you using, ie goat, brown using some tomato paste , throw abit of Paprika in, thyme whatever.
Throw that in the cooker then season with a little salt, black pepper. Normally chuck in a packet of slow cooker mix, garlic and herb is good, esp for shanks
Pour in a litre of beef stock, give it a mix around, then chop up a heap of silverbeet and throw in the top, some green beans, cerley, .
Cover and leave for a min of 8 hours on low.......beauiful.
Red wine can be used, esp with beef or throw in a can of season diced tomato of dont use stock, all good.(plus beer )

honestly the best way to cook goat is to give it to your indian friend, that's what I ended up doing. his middy cooked it up mint and they'd give me an ice cream container full of the stuff in return. He was always extremely appreciative of the gift.

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Originally Posted by MB

We slow cook most of our goat drenched in olive oil with Mediterranean dry seasonings. It's great to eat, but occasionally take it off the bone and add to a curry or stew for a change. We eat a lot of goat!

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Did this again tonight and it was awesome. Olive oil, followed by more olive oil, heaps of salt, cumin, coriander, cinnamon and then some more olive oil. 8 hours in the crock pot on low setting. Blowtorch at the end just because I can. Fell off the bone. Even Mrs MB who is scarily vegetarian at times went for a second helping. Wish I'd taken a photo.

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Originally Posted by dannyb

hey team on a recent trip I managed to bag a few goats which I bought home and basically boned it all out and diced it up for stews and curries.
One night this week the wife made a stew that required beer (ale) in the recipe and it was amazingly good and incredibly tender like literally fall apart tender.
Later this week she made a different stew recipe that didn't use beer and the goat was quite chewy, still tasted good but wasn't tender like the previous batch, is the beer the difference ? is there anything else I can marinade the goat in to stop it from being chewy ? anyone got any thoughts or experience in this ?
thanks

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Try marinating in Sprite or lemonade for a good few hours. The fillapino guys I work with do it with most meats, makes it buttery smooth. Look up 'Tocino", it's a pork dish, but the marinades work awesome with goat + time.