.25 Creedmoor 40⁰ Improved rifle build

I've been having a bit of a play with the quarter bore Creedmoor after picking up that nice little Rem mod 7 action here. It made some dies and put a barrel on it this morning and chambered it for some testing.

Attachment 275464

Attachment 275465

The rifle will eventually be a very short and light bush rifle
in a carbon stock with a suppressed 14" barrel.
The barrel is a 1:10" twist so I'll be keeping under the 120gr in projectiles.

For now I have chosen the 115gr Nosler balistic tip projectiles but will probably have a crack with some of the 110gr Hornady ELDXs.

I necked down a few Lapua SRP 6.5 crd cases and fireformed them to get the nice sharp 40⁰ shoulder and a small bump in case volume.

Attachment 275466

Onto a ladder test with some RL16 and the Nosler 115gr BT. The Barrel is still at 20" until I sort the stock inlet.
I had a look at some loads on hodgdons app and the max load for a std 25 creed with a 115gr and 2209 is 43.8gr giving 3036fps in a 24" barrel @ 60900psi.

RL16 is a little faster burning than 2209 but I also have an extra grain or so of volume in the 40⁰ improved case.
I started the ladder test at 42gr and went to 46 gr where I was at full capacity with a slight crunch but still had a rattle.

42gr- 2737fps
43gr- 2824fps
44gr- 2880fps
44.5gr- 2886fps
45gr- 2917fps
45.5gr- 2930fps
46gr- 2989fps

While there was no signs if excessive pressure such as a heavy bolt lift or smeared ejector stamping the primers were starting to crater and flow into the firing pin hole.
I think it had more to give but stopped there as I'm not a fan of compressed loads and 46gr seems like too much even I the larger volume case. My gut feeling tells me 44 to 44.5gr is closer to where I should be.

Attachment 275469

Attachment 275470

The same full case 46gr load with a 75gr vmax gave 3050fps

Attachment 275471

Attachment 275472

I've seen this Lapua small rifle primed brass hide a lot of pressure before but I'm really not sure with this one.
Does anyone have quickly they can do a quick model of this load to see what pressure I'm running at?


Water capacity of 53.5gr to the top of the case mouth.
115gr Nosler Balistic tip
RL16 powder
Small magnum primer
COAL 68.80mm
20" long 1:10" twist barrel

Very cool project. Following

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wingman

I've been having a bit of a play with the quarter bore Creedmoor after picking up that nice little Rem mod 7 action here. It made some dies and put a barrel on it this morning and chambered it for some testing.

Attachment 275464

Attachment 275465

The rifle will eventually be a very short and light bush rifle
in a carbon stock with a suppressed 14" barrel.
The barrel is a 1:10" twist so I'll be keeping under the 120gr in projectiles.

For now I have chosen the 115gr Nosler balistic tip projectiles but will probably have a crack with some of the 110gr Hornady ELDXs.

I necked down a few Lapua SRP 6.5 crd cases and fireformed them to get the nice sharp 40⁰ shoulder and a small bump in case volume.

Attachment 275466

Onto a ladder test with some RL16 and the Nosler 115gr BT. The Barrel is still at 20" until I sort the stock inlet.
I had a look at some loads on hodgdons app and the max load for a std 25 creed with a 115gr and 2209 is 43.8gr giving 3036fps in a 24" barrel @ 60900psi.

RL16 is a little faster burning than 2209 but I also have an extra grain or so of volume in the 40⁰ improved case.
I started the ladder test at 42gr and went to 46 gr where I was at full capacity with a slight crunch but still had a rattle.

42gr- 2737fps
43gr- 2824fps
44gr- 2880fps
44.5gr- 2886fps
45gr- 2917fps
45.5gr- 2930fps
46gr- 2989fps

While there was no signs if excessive pressure such as a heavy bolt lift or smeared ejector stamping the primers were starting to crater and flow into the firing pin hole.
I think it had more to give but stopped there as I'm not a fan of compressed loads and 46gr seems like too much even I the larger volume case. My gut feeling tells me 44 to 44.5gr is closer to where I should be.

Attachment 275469

Attachment 275470

The same full case 46gr load with a 75gr vmax gave 3050fps

Attachment 275471

Attachment 275472

I've seen this Lapua small rifle primed brass hide a lot of pressure before but I'm really not sure with this one.
Does anyone have quickly they can do a quick model of this load to see what pressure I'm running at?


Water capacity of 53.5gr to the top of the case mouth.
115gr Nosler Balistic tip
RL16 powder
Small magnum primer
COAL 68.80mm
20" long 1:10" twist barrel

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Very cool I had a 25-08 imp many years ago and would love one of these again.
I used 115bt and 110AB at around 2900 in a 22" barrel, back then I used N160.
Keep us posted on the progress

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I toyed with the idea of .25-08 40⁰ improved too,
initially I was going to run my .250 wildcat that is a shortened .284win case but thi action didn't feed it well and the slower powder required would likely just run inefficiently in a short barrel and just fireball.
I also considdered the 2mm shorter .25x47 Lapua 40⁰ improved..
I went back and forward with the decision for a week before I went with the Creedmoor case. I figured it would be the most efficient way to get speed in the short barrel and I already had plenty of lapua srp brass

Attachment 275478

The 115bt is a stunning harvester on big red stags, - that primer flow into a non bushed Remington firing pin hole is normal as the pressure gets up there

A short 7mm08 pokes the 120g BT out at 3000fps, I wouldn’t go too short or you risk only reinventing a smaller wheel

Yeah the 115gr BT stood out to me too as I've used the BT in other cartridges and it kills great.. not a high BC low drag bullet but it fits the roll I'm building this for. I have plenty of other long range hot rods for other hunting but this will be a short bush basher that carries a nice compromise of velocity and stopping power with this bullet choice. The 115gr Berger VLD hunter and Hornady 110gr ELDX might also be worth a look.
I know I won't be retaining the 3000fps but a respectable 2700-2800fps will do just fine in a shorty.

Yes I've seen the primer flow a lot in open tolerance firing pin holes but I'd feel a bit better about it if I knew approximately what pressure this powder is generating in these loads. Anyone got quick load?

Short barrels are easy to load for, choose the fastest powder the cartrige can safely be loaded with load until max velocity stops climbing due to barrel length then back it of a touch to get the best efficency and no fireball.

https://www.p-max.uk/index.htm

From my mentor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Friwi

https://www.p-max.uk/index.htm

From my mentor

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Thanks mate, that's what I needed.
Looks like my intuition was correct.. 44gr puts me in the 62000psi Saami pressure max range.. 46gr has me up around the 75000psi lapua SRP cartrigde max range.

Attachment 275498

Attachment 275499

Shame they don't list Hodgdon Superperformance powder

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Great project! Looks like a very useful cartridge.

Looking at the graphs above, I thought I’d pass on an observation I made recently with my 358 Winchester. I ran it up to max with 200gr bullets- using 47gr 2219 gave me 2640fps from a 20” barrel. Quite efficient use of powder. I noticed that after 20 rounds or so down range, the baffles of the suppressor were looking far less ‘blasted’ than I have observed with other cartridges, and the muzzle crown was very clean. I ran the numbers on the tool used above, and found the muzzle pressure was around 5500psi. That’s a heap less than the 15000psi that the data shows for the 25 creed improved load shown. Also showed that I can happily go to 18” without much sacrifice in velocity.

Long story short, the tool is a good way to validate observations, or evaluate cartridges and potential performance.

The sierra gamechanger projectiles is not too shabby either.goes well In 25/06 so should be nice other option in yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hunter_Nick

Great project! Looks like a very useful cartridge.

Looking at the graphs above, I thought I’d pass on an observation I made recently with my 358 Winchester. I ran it up to max with 200gr bullets- using 47gr 2219 gave me 2640fps from a 20” barrel. Quite efficient use of powder. I noticed that after 20 rounds or so down range, the baffles of the suppressor were looking far less ‘blasted’ than I have observed with other cartridges, and the muzzle crown was very clean. I ran the numbers on the tool used above, and found the muzzle pressure was around 5500psi. That’s a heap less than the 15000psi that the data shows for the 25 creed improved load shown. Also showed that I can happily go to 18” without much sacrifice in velocity.

Long story short, the tool is a good way to validate observations, or evaluate cartridges and potential performance.

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Yeah it's been a great tool to save time and components.
I've not found a powder that is even clost to the velocity and efficiency of RL16 in it yet. It's been fun trying all the simalar burn rates with a simulated 14" barrel too.
Looks like I'll be right around the 2750fps mark with the 14" barrel and a load of 44.5gr- 45gr.
I'm not too bothered about suppressor wear and tear as it's a hunting rifle it won't get punished. Suppressors are a consumable like barrels so I don't get precious about them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wingman

Yeah it's been a great tool to save time and components.
I've not found a powder that is even clost to the velocity and efficiency of RL16 in it yet. It's been fun trying all the simalar burn rates with a simulated 14" barrel too.
Looks like I'll be right around the 2750fps mark with the 14" barrel and a load of 44.5gr- 45gr.
I'm not too bothered about suppressor wear and tear as it's a hunting rifle it won't get punished. Suppressors are a consumable like barrels so I don't get precious about them.

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That's pretty good speed alright this thread has got me real keen on a .25 again.

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Whats the carbon stock. Don't recognise it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

That's pretty good speed alright this thread has got me real keen on a .25 again.

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I think you should to


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by buzzmann

I think you should to


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My bank balance says otherwise [emoji24]

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@25/08 IMP with a name like that how could you not have a quarterbore:D?
It was a real toss up between the creed Imp and the .25-08imp cartridge with this build but as it would turn out the Creed is much more efficient at getting the velocity with the shortbarrel. The 25-08 needed a slower powder which meant more unburned powder

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wingman

@25/08 IMP with a name like that how could you not have a quarterbore:D?
It was a real toss up between the creed Imp and the .25-08imp cartridge with this build but as it would turn out the Creed is much more efficient at getting the velocity with the shortbarrel. The 25-08 needed a slower powder which meant more unburned powder

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Yeah I'm thinking of rebarreling my 6.5 creedmore but that shoots so well it would be a shame.
What action have you used

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Rem mod 7

What's the max LOA that will fit without modifications.
I would want to run the 134grn I think

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

What's the max LOA that will fit without modifications.
I would want to run the 134grn I think

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Same as a Rem 700 and Saami oal, 2.8"
I'm actually much shorter than that currently so will throat this chamber slightly to mag length.

Attachment 276342

Perfect thanks
May need to look for a cheapish m7

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On a side note, Trueflite are now making 1:7" and 1:7.5" twist barrels for the 130-135gr bullets

Yip all ready priced one up was thinking of getting one tapered and fluted same as a finlight till I heard them say $2K

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Yeah unfortunatly this seems to be the new norm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stocky

Whats the carbon stock. Don't recognise it?

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It's ummmm new.. this is the first one out of the mould and I'll be putting it through it's tests. I'll talk with the manifacture before I release too much info on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wingman

It's ummmm new.. this is the first one out of the mould and I'll be putting it through it's tests. I'll talk with the manifacture before I release too much info on it.

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That's atleast 2 new NZ stocks coming to market soon hopefully good to hear.

Cool cartridge, a faster twist and 134 eld would be a sweet project as well.

Have been testing a trueflite 7.5 twist in 25GT and it shoots well

Good to know that you have an AI reamer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kiwi303

Good to know that you have an AI reamer

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The 40 deg improved shoulder was cut with a .243AI reamer with a .250 pilot.

Attachment 278714

Attachment 278715


.25 Creedmoor 40⁰ Imp 115gr Nosler BT next to a 6.5 Creedmoor 143gr Norma Bondstrike. Note the extra case volume


Attachment 278716

If your faffing round in future looking for load and pressure models Gordon's reloading tool (GRT) is excellent and free.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nick-D

If your faffing round in future looking for load and pressure models Gordon's reloading tool (GRT) is excellent and free.

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Thanks, I'll check that one out