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Thread: Forming 221 Fireball / 20 Vartarg brass

  1. #1
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    Forming 221 Fireball / 20 Vartarg brass

    Hello, don't know if this is the right place to show some steps I form 20 Vartarg brass from 223 Rem. I am posting it cos I just received rifle back for rechambering. Had it before in 223 rem.

    Tools used:

    - 221 form die > chop excess necks off with cheapo mini cut off saw > run cases again thru 20VT type S busing FL die (.227" bushings) > trim cases to 1.4" > run cases thru expander die > turn case necks to 0.0125" thick. > anneal > again thru 20VT FL die > load > shoot (fireform).

    I have here some pics of the steps taken. I turned down a few necks so when I get it running, I can post more pics if you guys are interested. Hope you enjoy

    20VT die and cases:

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    Trim die. I should have taken the ones with looong necks, but it works...

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  2. #2
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    I don't know why I couldn't post more pics in the thread above.

    Chopping necks off:
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    Trimming cases:
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    Trimming die. Cases for comparison:
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    Full length S die (.225 bushing in the pic, but I actually use .227 for necking down):
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    223 ADI brass:
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    Ready for neck turn
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    Food:
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    If you guys are interested, I can post the neck turn stage, loading, shooting and results in a few days.

    Sorry for the awkward way I uploaded them cos its my first time posting something.

    Cheers
    Last edited by xring; 04-06-2014 at 01:34 AM. Reason: missing words
    puku, 7mmsaum, veitnamcam and 5 others like this.

  3. #3
    ebf
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    Very interesting.

    I'd be keen to see the other stages.

    Nifty little chop saw
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
    Black rifles matter...

  4. #4
    Gone But Not Forgotten Toby's Avatar
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    I wanna see the other stages too, and the rifle. What speeds do you get from it?

  5. #5
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    Have you got the pistol? That lovely bolt action baby from the 70s, the guy in the USA that was the first to shoot all major game animals with a pistol, used the 221 fireball for long range on sheep. Wish I still had the book
    Boom, cough,cough,cough

  6. #6
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    Cool thread. This is the sort of stuff I wish there was more of on the forum

  7. #7
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    I am interested in the way you trime the long brass

    I run a wildcat based on a 7mm saum case shortened 200thou



    For trimming I have been using a modified lee trimer followed by a wilson to finish but it is hard work. I bought a redding form die like the one you show and I can hacksaw the tops off but it is a bit rough and ready is that buzz saw thing your prefered trim method? are you in NZ and if so where did you get it/what did it cost?

  8. #8
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    Hi guys, thanks for the replies.
    I posted the images, lets say, ramdomly yesterday cos it was late and my "google translate" in my brain was tiiiired. Yes I am in NZ, but my english is not that good, so sorry for that!
    I bought the mini chop saw at aliexpress.com, around US$ 55. I tried hacking saw the tops but it was a PITA. This saw chops necks off as butter and it was worth the money.
    yerimaginary, its interesting your forming dies. It first pushes the bottom of the neck down and gradually the top as well. Nice!!!! What cal is that?

    Here are some more images and I hope start necking turn them today, if wife and baby allow me.

    Please guys, any comment, good or bad, should be left and I will appreciate messages from smarter people.

    Cheers


    Necks off. Cuts like butter. Saw was running while picture was taken
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    One more
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    Clean mini saw cut
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    Before/After FL sizing
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    Wet tumbling
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    Ingredients
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    More tumbling
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    Tumbling
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    Toby likes this.

  9. #9
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    So that saw runs on 240V? could you please supply a link? was the shipping expensive? I tried using a dremel cutoff bit and that was hopeless also that saw looks great. My wild cat is simply a 7mm saum shortened 200thou at the shoulder
    Here is my form die


    if i were to do it again i might try it this way.

  10. #10
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    found it, took a while...
    Mini cut off saw,Mini cut off saw/Mini Mitre Saw/Mini chop saw,220v 7800rpm cut ferrous metals non ferrous metals wood plastic-in Special Store from Jewelry on Aliexpress.com

    I did think of trying a very fine (say 32 tpi) mini hand held hacksaw with the redding form and trim die did you try this by any chance?

  11. #11
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    That's a lot of effort well done
    Not for me I'd loose the brass when hunting and have two start again


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  12. #12
    ebf
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    xring, if you could post some pics of your annealing setup/process that would be great thanks.
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
    Black rifles matter...

  13. #13
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    Thanks again, guys! I tried the hacksaw but it kinda galled, lots of elbow grease and ended up with a bad finish around the case mouth. Previously, I was thinking about those Renovator tool, but was afraid to spend some money on that and it didnt work. On Youtube you can see some people making 300AAC out of 223 and most of them use this mini rotary saw.
    About the annealing process, nothing special. Just a Bernzomatic propane torch, a cordless drill and any clock that makes some noise/tic tacs so I can control time. But in the near future I will build a proper annealer myself.
    Here are some self explanatory images continuing the process.
    Cheers

    Cheap KMart oven
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    Simple ingredients to mak'em shine
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  14. #14
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    kg copper cleaner works great for cleaning brass off the expander mandrel. I have the k&m neck turner but found it fiddly i then got a pma tools turner its much nicer to use with a micrometer style depth adjustment and the cutters come with different angles to match shoulder angles for running into the shoulder. The pma cutters are broader so its much easier to get a clean smooth cut than with the k&M. The expander mandrels are nicer too with an eliptoid shape to them http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...-turning-tool/
    you can buy a sleeve from pma that allows you to fit the carbide mandrel from the k&m to the pma turner so you can still cut the donuts. That carbide mandrel runs so much smoother on the brass than standard steel mandrels its the one really nice thing about the k&m set up
    Last edited by yerimaginaryM8; 06-06-2014 at 09:47 AM.

  15. #15
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    hey yerimaginary, thanks for the tips. i was thinking about getting a second one from 21st shooting, which looks nice too, but they may not have those "adaptors" to use my k&m mandrel. i got some more images to upload now but i am sleeping sitting up so will post tomorrow. what is your main goal? hunting, paper shooting, long range, short BR?
    cheers for the heads up again!

 

 

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