Prototype Westley Richards Hammerless Monkey Tail restoration

Here is something pretty different even for me

I recently brought this well known and written about relic Westley Richards Hammerless Monkey Tail prototype rifle

Attachment 261834

What is thought is that it was the pre production prototype working model and it was still in the Birmingham Proof house when it was bombed during WW2

The final production model had a deeper Wedge Lock which is why this is likely the prototype.
Also this is the only known example with the top plate screws.
It also has a couple of pin holes that are filled with short blanks, which confirms that this was most likely a prototype.

This is what ultimately went into production.
Note the deeper wedge locking into the rear of the receiver

Attachment 261835

We do know this was a complete stocked rifle because the rear tang is rebated for a screw that went through the stock into the trigger guard.
It also has an under barrel stock hanger and rear sights.
This all suggests it was once a complete rifle.
But has no obvious remaining signs of a front sight.

This is the patent and if you look clearly you can see the stock screw that passes through the rear receiver tang, through the stock and into the rear of the trigger guard.

Attachment 261836

Ok Lets get this out there right now.
Despite the outward relic condition this rifle ( thing ? Not sure what exactly too call it ) has a very good bore and is chambered in 577 Snider.

When I brought this relic I placed it in the serious long term project category.
But being borderline OCD ( self diagnosis. joke ) and with it being wet today I made a new main spring for it.
And this evening I successfully repeatedly fired 577 Snider primed cases in it.
Ok I also have too say the trigger is shit !

Where to from here ?

Where to

Well
I intend restocking it
It is most likely safe to be shot with a 50% charge ... the bore is vastly better than most Snider's I have seen.

I will be looking for a suitable trigger guard that will take a stock screw at the rear and wood screw at the front.
It could be brass or steel
Plain steel shotgun style butt plate.

Other than that I am not constrained by there being a correct type for this rifle because it is a One Of A Kind

Probably straight grip
Probably reasonably short fore end
Likely fairly light because its only a 577 Snider after all

Keen too get some input from those of you that are into this old stuff also

Hmmm, interesting. Almost but not quite an upside down rolling block . . . .

WR was flogging a dead horse trying too make his excellent Monkey Tail percussion into a hammerless rifle.

He already had his Martini design which was vastly superior

But I tracked this down in the process of trying too find a percussion Monkey Tail.

So I'm starting my MT collection with the rarest ( only one ) and least successful model.

Does the barrel bear any proof marks?

I would leave it un altered ,who knows what might turn up in the future.

What date is ascribed to it? Given the chambering i wonder if it was initially intended as a possible conversion for p53s in that intermediate period.The concepts not so far removed from the berdan, or Allen conversions.
Either way you seem to be a magnet for unicorns.

@Marty Henry this is thought to be the patent or pre patent model
June 1868

The barrel and receiver are a single integral piece so unlikely to have been intended as a Conversion

There are as yet no obvious visible markings

There were a number of similar rifles buried with grease in their bores after the bombings.
They were buried for long enough that the stocks all rotted and the exteriors are very rusty.

But the bore is still in excellent condition.

We know it is pre production because the wedge lock is not as high as the patent drawings and surviving complete examples.

This makes it the second pre production patent model I own.
The other is similarly un marked and un serial numbered

Can you add a bit of context please?


"There were a number of similar rifles buried with grease in their bores after the bombings.
They were buried for long enough that the stocks all rotted and the exteriors are very rusty."

Were the Rifles in the Armory when it was bombed and discovered in the aftermath?

Some of the buildings at Enfield lock had their floors built up from hundreds of P53s and Sniders in each room,this was to raise the floor above the usual hight of any floods. They found them when they redeveloped the site for housing.

I will trawl through Wal Winfer's books this evening and pull the various references together

20 of these barreled actions came to NZ and changed hands a bit.
But Ed Smith ex CHCH owned a number of them.
Some were in Wal's books complete with breech blocks etc.
Subsequently parts have been miss mothered.
I have seen what remaind and the WR MT was so complete it was worth owning.

Someone clearly dissasembled and parts got lost.
One I saw was in quite good condition but the breech block ( in Wals book images ) is now not with it.
Because it was a prototype we now don't have any clues about what was happening inside that block !

Bore is as good as you would ever see in a Snider

Attachment 261877

Enfield Rifling ?

5 groove 1:48" RH Twist
26 1/2" Long
.585 Bore
.590 Groove
Grooves are approx twice the width of the lands

Attachment 261919
Attachment 261920

I have seen several of the remaining relics.
They all had reasonable bores which suggests they were packed with grease when buried.

There are also some more dramatic versions of how they came to be buried.

Next time I talk to the gent I brought this from I will ask him for the names of the various owners since they came to NZ as a large lot.

All I can add is you have really managed to corner the market for that particular rabbit hole. I bet the people at the FSA call center must fold inward slightly when they see your number on the caller ID, "Pass me that obscure firearm ID book again thanks Timmy, and hold all my appointments for the rest of the day!"

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Originally Posted by No.3

All I can add is you have really managed to corner the market for that particular rabbit hole. I bet the people at the FSA call center must fold inward slightly when they see your number on the caller ID, "Pass me that obscure firearm ID book again thanks Timmy, and hold all my appointments for the rest of the day!"

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Ahhh well actually.
That is very close to the truth.
FSA has wanted too rename a number of my registered items and re caliber some too.
I have steadfastly resisted their Google image search suggestions.

I am due for my FAL renewal inspection and that will be the next little challenge for someone at the FSA

Interesting story regarding the reason for burial.

I wonder why that was done instead of melting them down for war materials?

I would say that you have a strong case to argue that if you own the only extant example of a type of firearm then there is no need to devalue it with stamping a number on it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norsk

Interesting story regarding the reason for burial.

I wonder why that was done instead of melting them down for war materials?

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Yeah true.

But how ever it happened its pretty neat too have thr patent or pre patent model.

It's just something random you bump into when you are looking for someone else.
And then you get a reputation for taking on weird single shot rifle projects

But still don't have the Sporting WR Monkey Tail rifle I was looking for

They are out there,more than ever I suppose?

There has definitely been an upswing in the amount of old stuff on the market here due to the impending law change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norsk

They are out there,more than ever I suppose?

There has definitely been an upswing in the amount of old stuff on the market here due to the impending law change.

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For me it's just been a matter of making a lot of calls to old guys and networking.
Some of them have been collecting firearms for 50 years and hoarding projects with the intention of " getting around to it one day "
That One Day has usually well passed for these guys.

That One Day will pass for me also.
So I make an effort too buy these interesting projects and get them going as quickly as possible.
Use them or move them on, with the satisfaction of at least having owned and shot a piece of history.

In this case a genuine prototype from the hands of Westley Richards