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Thread: Strange questions for builders / gunsmiths

  1. #1
    ebf
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    Strange questions for builders / gunsmiths

    Is there an actual measurement that distinguishes between long and short actions, or does it differ from manufacturer to manufacturer ?

    Is it possible to use "short action" cartridge in a long action rifle ? What are the practical implications in terms of bolt travel and magazine etc ?

    Assuming you start with a single shot break open rifle, is it possible to change the caliber from something like 308 to 300 win mag ? There should not be an issue with bolt face diff, action length is not a worry due to break open, so is it just a question of reaming the chamber for the larger caliber, provided the bore and the projectiles of both calibers match ?
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
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  2. #2
    R93
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    Basically the definition of a long or short action, is that it can extract and eject a loaded cartridge of its function.


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    Good question ebf sorry R98 didnt understand your answer. i can see how you could re-chamber a break open. But could you put a 308 in a long action for a custom so later down the track after a lot of practice you could re-barrel it into a 7mm mag 300rum or 338 etc

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    Numzane Spudattack's Avatar
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    You can use a long action for a short cartridge, tikka t3s only have a long action and just use a spacer in the magazine for shorter rounds.
    My Howa .223 uses a standard length action and just has a magazine spacer to hold the cartridges forward, fully retracted the bolt face goes about an inch past the case heads in the magazine.
    As for a single shot I think the only issue, provided you have enough material in the chamber for reaming out to a fatter cartridge, would be getting the extractor to work with the larger case head.
    "Here's the deal I'm the best there is. Plain and simple. I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence."

  5. #5
    ebf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudattack View Post
    You can use a long action for a short cartridge, tikka t3s only have a long action and just use a spacer in the magazine for shorter rounds.
    My Howa .223 uses a standard length action and just has a magazine spacer to hold the cartridges forward, fully retracted the bolt face goes about an inch past the case heads in the magazine.
    As for a single shot I think the only issue, provided you have enough material in the chamber for reaming out to a fatter cartridge, would be getting the extractor to work with the larger case head.
    tx SA, yup, the other thing obviously is that the barrel is up to the task of handling the new caliber. where I am going with this is making a Baikal IZH18 into 300 win mag one stock/receiver with 3 barrels: 7.62x39 bush shorty, 308 medium range and 300WM for LR

    the baikal extractors are so simple in design it is ridiculous, thats the least technically challenging part of the job.
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
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  6. #6
    ebf
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    Quote Originally Posted by username View Post
    But could you put a 308 in a long action for a custom so later down the track after a lot of practice you could re-barrel it into a 7mm mag 300rum or 338 etc
    username, I am asking about caliber change without re-barrel, so the start and end caliber needs the same projectile size

    for instance 7mm08 to 7mm rem mag or 308 to 300 win mag
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
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    Sorry wouldn't there be a problem with the differing velositys and rate of twist?

  8. #8
    R93
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    You need a decent Knox form in order to re chamber to another cal ebf.
    Meaning meat at and forward of the chamber end that is enough to be safe and withstand the pressures of the intended cartridge.
    Most factory guns barely have enough to pull a barrel back to re-throat the existing cal.
    Not saying it can't be done but it can get tricky.

    Username a long action is such that it can extract and eject a loaded LA cartridge. Vice versa for a short action.
    There are different lengths of each.
    A short action may be long enough to extract and eject a fired LA case but will not do a loaded one if you get what I mean.



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  9. #9
    Numzane Spudattack's Avatar
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    What about going .30-06 or .30-06AI, would solve extractor issues as same case head width? Belted Magnums can be a pain in the arse and you probably con't have enough meat to go that big!
    "Here's the deal I'm the best there is. Plain and simple. I wake up in the morning and I piss excellence."

  10. #10
    ebf
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    Quote Originally Posted by username View Post
    Sorry wouldn't there be a problem with the differing velositys and rate of twist?
    good point
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
    Black rifles matter...

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    wont be a problem, just will limit your choice of projectiles. but why would you bother with a baikal?, for $400 you could have a whole nother rifle
    fair enough on a blaster or what ever they are called.

    spend the ballance on one decent 308 and use it across the board. one good load, one good scope.
    then at least you will end up with a decent rifle that will have a decent trigger insted of three shit ones
    by the way reaming will cost you roughly $130 + postage to the gunsmith. half way to another whole new rifle

    bear in mind some 7.62x39 rifles have .311 bores rather than .308 meaning you run 303 projectiles rater than 30 caliber

    it is possible yes. should you do it? No.

  12. #12
    ebf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill999 View Post
    bear in mind some 7.62x39 rifles have .311 bores rather than .308 meaning you run 303 projectiles rater than 30 caliber
    yup, aware of the difference, tx
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
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  13. #13
    ebf
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    Bill999, have you had a bad experience with a Baikal, do you own one ?

    My trigger sorted for less than $50, around 3lb, breaks real nice. Other than a target air rifle with an adjustable trigger, no rifle I've owned has ever had a trigger I was perfectly happy with in stock form...
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby
    Black rifles matter...

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    lets cost this out

    bare rifle - $400 x 3 one in 7.62x39 two in 308 (or one 308 and one in 30-06) =$1200 if you can buy barrels cheeper sweet replace this price
    mounts and bases - $150 x 3 $450
    barrel reaming on one of the 308 (or 30-06)barrels $130
    scopes x 3 (skys the limit but lets say 2 x leupy vx1s and a vx3 4.5-14) $450 X 2 + $950
    trigger job - $50

    this would be a $3680 project

    just think what you could buy for $3680.

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    go try a sako, tikka, howa, remington 700 and I am sure plenty of others that have allen key adjustable triggers from the factory.

    mitch maxberry lives in your neck of the woods go talk to him about the plan you have in mind. he will provide good advice if you ask for it and he is a good smith if you decide to get this project going.

 

 

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