Not Required?

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02-10-2013, 08:15 PM
Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

Importing Inert/Dummy and Live Rounds from the States. Permit Required/Not Required?

Hi Guys. What do you think of this?

I was wanting to import some "Inert/Dummy" rounds from America, so I rang up New Zealand Customs to see what the formality was! The Gentleman I spoke to on the phone said "Even though they are Dummy Rounds I'd have to contact the NZ Police (as they are in charge of dealing with the importation of firearms and ammunition) to see if I need a permit! If I did need a permit to import Inert rounds then I need a permit, however, if I don't need a permit then I have to produce a letter from the NZ Police written on a Police letter-head stating that I don't need a permit and forward it to NZ Customs prior to importing! Dude was adamant that, that was the case!

Anyway, I ring a certain Police station and ask to speak to the arms officer and she tells me I don't need a permit from them for that! The way she was speaking, "THAT" included "Live" ammunition! So I blatantly asked the question "does "THAT" include LIVE ammunition?" And she stated YES! Despite me cross-examining her she insisted that the law is very clear and that I was legally entitled to import ammunition (Live or otherwise) without any permit from them what-so-ever!:huh:

I don't know if you guys can see what I can see BUT... I can see the poor fellow in the States that's sending me "live Ammunition", doing "TIME" and me, at the very least, never seeing my precious rounds!:(

So I left it a week before ringing back, just in case she had a change of heart. This time I got some other woman, who didn't believe I needed any permission from them (Police) either to import ammunition either Live or otherwise! She then asked if I'd like to be put through to the arms officer to which I spoke to again.

She (arms officer) still insisted that I didn't need any permission. When I hit back with, "ok, lets assume you're right and that the NZ Customs let "live' rounds into the country and posted to my door, at what stage then do you guys (Police) ever see my Firearms Licence to make sure I'm fit and proper to possess these rounds?" To which she replied "I've been doing this job for 9 years and you don't need a permit!" I further asked if I could have confirmation of that on a Police Letterhead (as the Customs officer requested):) and she replied "You're not the only person to import ammunition into this country and we've never had to do this before, so no!"

I then asked if I could have her first name so that when I ring back I can let her know how I got on! She gave me her first name and then promptly said "There's no need for you to let me know how you get on as I'm 100% positive you'll see your ammo!"

What do you guys think? Is NZ law that sick that if I want to purchase ammo I need to produce my firearms licence at the local sports store, where they've known me for years, and yet, I can legally import live ammunition from a totally different country, from totally strange people of whom I've never before met, without so much as even permission from the Police?

I'd love your opinions on this, both on live and inert rounds!
02-10-2013, 08:32 PM
Sidney

You don't need a permit to import live rounds fro the states... You will need a permit to export them out of the states. To get that you will need a letter from the police saying that you don't need a permit import. It will take you 5-6 weeks and may cost you money to get the export permit.

In so far as inert rounds look like live rounds, the paranoid yanks will most probably apply the same rationale...
02-10-2013, 08:50 PM
Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney

You don't need a permit to import live rounds fro the states... You will need a permit to export them out of the states. To get that you will need a letter from the police saying that you don't need a permit import. It will take you 5-6 weeks and may cost you money to get the export permit.

In so far as inert rounds look like live rounds, the paranoid yanks will most probably apply the same rationale...

Thanks Sidney, and where do I send this letter to saying that I don't need an import permit (assuming they'll give me one that is!) And yeah, some of the dummy rounds will look like live rounds barring the "Spent Primer!"
02-10-2013, 10:24 PM
Maca49

I've been trying just to get brass from the states, they cannot send it out of the country, here's a way that might work for the inert rounds, I'd leave the projectile out, even put them in a separate package. Go to the post office and join their " address in the states" scheme, you then get them sent to that address in the states, the NZ Post give you a special number to use on the package. It then gets packaged with everyone else's and sent to NZ Post in NZ and redistributed to you by courier post in NZ, go to the post shop and check it out. Just don't send prohibited items, such as load ammo, gun parts you not allowed etc.
02-10-2013, 10:30 PM
Sidney

Frankly its too much trouble, AT&F dept (Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms) has application forms on its website, you would have to attach the letter from the police to that.
02-10-2013, 10:35 PM
Maca49

Why would you do that for a bit of brass? Just get it sent thru NZ Post, nothing illegal to post brass thru the mail?
03-10-2013, 12:42 AM
Sidney

If you don't know that its illegal, you shouldn't be offering advice that its not.

The export of ammunition or the components of ammunition from the US without a permit is illegal. The person posting it would have to falsely declare the contents, and break the law by doing so. There are no minimum quantities that I can see specified. Its fine for the recipient in NZ but the person sending it breaks the law and that is why it is difficult to get suppliers to send brass and projectiles without the appropriate paperwork. NZ post will not want to be put into that position either..

It is all trivial of course, and the yanks are pedantic... but ask David Tipple about their sensitivities in these areas. Whoever is sending this stuff to you runs a risk...
03-10-2013, 10:15 AM
Spanners

Live ammo is DG and won't be shipped by any carrier via air, nor via sea without the paperwork and dicking around involved

The remailers in the states won't touch it when they see something that looks like a bullet, then it's stuck sitting there
03-10-2013, 12:14 PM
Maca49

Da Spanners it happened??
03-10-2013, 12:15 PM
Spanners

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maca49

Da Spanners it happened??

English ?? Lol
03-10-2013, 04:24 PM
mikee

I have never had issues getting either brass or projectiles from the US. Asked them their polocies when arriving and always declared them to the TSA etc when leaving. Quite often they will open and check the boxes then send me on my way. I have always said to them any issues then more than happy to leave em. So far no issue however this might be different for sending via mail.
03-10-2013, 06:21 PM
Maca49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanners

English ?? Lol

Spahish
04-10-2013, 06:05 PM
Remington 5R .300 Win Mag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidney

If you don't know that its illegal, you shouldn't be offering advice that its not.

The export of ammunition or the components of ammunition from the US without a permit is illegal. The person posting it would have to falsely declare the contents, and break the law by doing so. There are no minimum quantities that I can see specified. Its fine for the recipient in NZ but the person sending it breaks the law and that is why it is difficult to get suppliers to send brass and projectiles without the appropriate paperwork. NZ post will not want to be put into that position either..

It is all trivial of course, and the yanks are pedantic... but ask David Tipple about their sensitivities in these areas. Whoever is sending this stuff to you runs a risk...

Thanks again Sidney. My "courier" so-to-speak (the guy in the States that would send it to me) claims that it shouldn't be a problem as he's sent dummy cartridges to Australians and New Zealanders before! Even I myself have sent empty cartridge cases to Hornady for machining and received them back alright... I just took them to NZ Post!

Speaking of "Falsely" declaring the contents, I bought a "Coral" off Ebay for my wife (a year or so ago) and the Mongrel I bought it off in England "Apparently" didn't disclose what was it! NZ Customs confiscated it and a black mark went against "MY" Worthy and Precious Name (believe it or not) because it looked (to them) that "I'd" tried to deviantly smuggle contraband into this country! When I E-mailed the guy, who sent it to me, for re-imbursement of the NZ$130 odd I was out of pocket, he failed to reply, I wonder why!.. That's why I want to do things legally and be able to "Proudly" declare the contents of my goods!