Thread: Aviation security retards ?!

So recently flew down to Queenstown and back (today). Going down a few more questions on check in at Auckland, but no issues at all. Return flight today...... find a wee message in bottom of my pack stating “unloaded ammo removed and discarded” as it’s contrary to avaiation safety rules . WTF ???? Going down I had ~20 rounds 280ai plus 20 rounds 308. Both in factory ammo boxes with plastic inserts. Coming back, same rounds on 280 plus 18 rounds of empty brass (284) in a Hornady ammo packet it’s plastic inserts. They thru out the empty brass.
Firstly Ihad fully complied with all the rules Air NZ state, and was well under the 5kg allowance for ammo.
Secondly where does it state that fired empty ammo (brass) is not allowed.
Thirdly and most importantly what moron can justify that fired ammo cases are a security or airline safety issue?

I’m going to take them on over this, the principle at stake is more important than 18 rounds of 284 brass.
Thoughts ?

heck yes.....have a go...if nothing else demand they replace the brass,its not cheap....what a bunch of muppets.
if Im reading it correctly they actually OPENED your cartridge box and picked out the empty cases to dispose of them????? best check zero on your rifles too.

It doesn’t state anything about fired brass
Usually the Queenstown guys are good, far easier to talk to than the Akld security guys
I’d say you struck a newbie.
Kick up and you’ll stop it happening again
Let us know how you get on

Yup, it's a new thing. Make sure you put your empty brass back in the same boxes as your loaded rounds.

Happened to some 3-gun or speed steel guys 2 weekends ago...

Clowns, get up them.

Originally Posted by chainsaw

So recently flew down to Queenstown and back (today). Going down a few more questions on check in at Auckland, but no issues at all. Return flight today...... find a wee message in bottom of my pack stating “unloaded ammo removed and discarded” as it’s contrary to avaiation safety rules . WTF ???? Going down I had ~20 rounds 280ai plus 20 rounds 308. Both in factory ammo boxes with plastic inserts. Coming back, same rounds on 280 plus 18 rounds of empty brass (284) in a Hornady ammo packet it’s plastic inserts. They thru out the empty brass.
Firstly Ihad fully complied with all the rules Air NZ state, and was well under the 5kg allowance for ammo.
Secondly where does it state that fired empty ammo (brass) is not allowed.
Thirdly and most importantly what moron can justify that fired ammo cases are a security or airline safety issue?

I’m going to take them on over this, the principle at stake is more important than 18 rounds of 284 brass.

Thoughts?

Bizarre, still, if that is the rule.... Fired cases can have unburnt powder in them etc.

Some organisations could do with more employees adhering to rules, let's not name them here.

Also, attention to detail is not a trait to discourage IMHO, especially in aviation security. Ask yourself if kicking up a fuss will have such an effect before you go ahead, maybe better to just take it on the chin.

German spy caught on Eastern Front by russian soldier, trying to pass for a Russian. His papers were perfect, but no rust mark underneath the central staple. Soviet Russia did not use stainless staples. Spy interrogated, tried and duly executed.

Originally Posted by Cordite

Also, attention to detail is not a trait to discourage IMHO, especially in aviation security.

I would be more impressed with that line of debate were it not for the fact that I have seen on more than one occasion (I fly very often for work), presumably-female pax waved through Immigration while wearing the full burqa. I.e., no correlate-visual-identification-with-travel-document at all possible or attempted. Most recent time (couple years ago) escalated politely to my then-MP who escalated it to Wgtn who buried it.

Fired cases are completely exempt from any laws or regulations in NZ. Screw the bastards and demand compensation. Fucking Nazis!

Maybe start by politely asking which precise rule it was against (and a copy of the wording), with a view to preventing future incidents?

Don't aggravate the pricks, it's not worth it. I had a run in with two of the pricks a couple years ago at the xray machines in the Customs / departures area.
I was travelling overseas with two rifles on a hunting trip, I was checking in up the sharp end so you have more baggage allowance but was still overweight by a couple of kilo's, the check in lady was being anal on the weight so I had to open up a checked in bag and remove some gear and stuff it in my carry on, what I didn't know at the time was in one box of gear that I placed in my carry on was a rifle bolt, of course when xraying my gear I get called aside and all hell broke loose, they got me aside in a room and called the airport cops. This young Avsec prick went to town on me trying to make a name for himself, it didn't help when I made some cursory remarks to him. The copper turned up and could see it was a genuine mistake and was bloody helpful sorting it out with them. He organised the check in people to come and see us and take the bolt down stairs a put in in my bag.
If the copper hadn't turned up I was toast plus flying up the sharp end does help, airline staff tend to want to keep you happy.

nah, fuk em.
I've sent them a very polite "please explain" email today. We'll see were it goes, but I'm not taking this shit lying down.
I'm sure there are plenty of good people who work in Aviation Security, but if they have screw ups they should fix it & learn from their mistakes.

Heard that 2 guys flying down for wap blocks this week end just gone got all their ammo confiscated ..... try buying 284 ammo in TeAnau, or anywhere for that matter.
Air NZ staff dont have a clue about what constitutes "approved packaging" for ammo and the whole thing is very vague. Needs tidying up, sensible and made very clear .... like provide pictures of all types of approved packaging. And packaging that is not acceptable.
Right now its a mind fuck, roll the dice and see if you're lucky today.

BTW "original branded packaging" which is what Air NZ staff often quote is by definition impossible for any wild cat cartridge (284, 7mmSAUM, 6.5 SAUM, until recently 280ai, etc etc.)
I've had this discussion very politely with Air NZ staff on several occasions both in lodging my firearm/ammo details when booking flights and at check in.
Generally speaking the person is clueless about the subject matter, yet they are the only interface we have to the requirements.

And most factory ammo packets are as flimsy as shit, not as strong/safe as purpose designed plastic ammo boxes ..... wtf ????

Whenever I fly with ammo, I wrap each round individually in bubble wrap and/or tissue paper. Last time, I got home and found a note from Aviation Security saying they had inspected my (declared) ammo, and thanking me for packing it correctly. Just saying...

Originally Posted by sightpicture

I would be more impressed with that line of debate were it not for the fact that I have seen on more than one occasion (I fly very often for work), presumably-female pax waved through Immigration while wearing the full burqa. I.e., no correlate-visual-identification-with-travel-document at all possible or attempted. Most recent time (couple years ago) escalated politely to my then-MP who escalated it to Wgtn who buried it.

F..k No ! Tut tut, you mustn't question pax in full length burqas, especially these days.....!!

Originally Posted by 300winmag

Don't aggravate the pricks, it's not worth it. I had a run in with two of the pricks a couple years ago at the xray machines in the Customs / departures area.
I was travelling overseas with two rifles on a hunting trip, I was checking in up the sharp end so you have more baggage allowance but was still overweight by a couple of kilo's, the check in lady was being anal on the weight so I had to open up a checked in bag and remove some gear and stuff it in my carry on, what I didn't know at the time was in one box of gear that I placed in my carry on was a rifle bolt, of course when xraying my gear I get called aside and all hell broke loose, they got me aside in a room and called the airport cops. This young Avsec prick went to town on me trying to make a name for himself, it didn't help when I made some cursory remarks to him. The copper turned up and could see it was a genuine mistake and was bloody helpful sorting it out with them. He organised the check in people to come and see us and take the bolt down stairs a put in in my bag.
If the copper hadn't turned up I was toast plus flying up the sharp end does help, airline staff tend to want to keep you happy.

Yup, avsec are assholes, particularly in AKL, they enjoy their power (and watch too much TV). (You should try the customs idiots in the US!). Don't argue with them, you'll never win. Just make sure you do everything right.

Going down to Queenstown later this week, taking the .223 to deal to rabbits, think I'll buy ammo down there and leave my reloaded stuff at home, rather that than have those idiots who are a law to themselves throw my ammo out. I'll go to Gun City and support old David.