Cahill tells us where the criminals are getting guns.

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Originally Posted by Savage1

Maybe do an OIA request.

I know of a number of strawbuyers that have been arrested and charged, caught via the registry.

Just because you haven’t heard about it doesn’t mean it’s not happening, or prolific.

Funnily enough I’ve never been involved in a case where they’ve been imported in shipping containers.

I’m not pro or the registry reall as I don’t know enough of the details, but it certainly does have some positives which I’m not determined to remain ignorant to.

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I'd be happier with the registry if we had a proper constitution in NZ. I'm all for cracking down in straw buyers but don't like how our rights can be stripped on a whim via "orders in council".
What I hear about WA concerns me very much.

Im not opposed to registration.

I am opposed to the Police administering it. Having had my details released in data leaks not once but twice by the blue gang I am no longer able to trust them in any matters what so ever.

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Originally Posted by fawkes

Im not opposed to registration.

I am opposed to the Police administering it. Having had my details released in data leaks not once but twice by the blue gang I am no longer able to trust them in any matters what so ever.

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Regardless of who’s administering there is always the chance of a data leak occurring as it comes down to human error.

Look at all the other government departments who have had data leaks over recent years.

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Originally Posted by Seventenths

Regardless of who’s administering there is always the chance of a data leak occurring as it comes down to human error.

Look at all the other government departments who have had data leaks over recent years.

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So you're saying "yes we are shit but so is everyone else"

If this is your idea of a logical argument maybe you should stick with play-doh

Police have failed with databases (C-cat and E cat riddled with errors) cost overruns (INCIS) and even had several officers disciplined for accessing information illegally (numerous but the latest was all the coppers checking the file of the officer killed by some Nelson scum on NYE)

Police are not trusted with administering the register because they keep fucking it up

Stop trying to say that the grass is blue and the sky is green

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Originally Posted by 308

Police are not trusted with administering the register because they keep fucking it up

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to add to this I would suggest Police should not be trusted with administering the register as having set themselves up as an anti-gun lobby group to the govt they have a clear conflict of interest

Got to wonder if if the countrys running rampant with straw buyers why so many gun shops are closing down. Plus surley theres no such thing as paying someone not to check a container.? How about that container of the mongols that was flagged to be checked a while back and suddenly dissapeared and was found empty ??? Just cause the police said so hmmm could correct or covering arse??

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Originally Posted by scotty

his flawed logic ("gang patches don't kill people guns kill people") is typical of "journalists" today ......
if gang patches don't kill people then guns certainly don't being another inanimate object, or if you were to believe guns kill people then the statistics would show that gang patches do in fact kill people

he's a tosser it would be good to go back to the days when we had actual reporters that reported the news rather than inflated egos pushing their own agendas .....taxpayer funded too being on tv1

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I'm in the 80% (and rising) that neither trust nor watch legacy media, so they are mostly preaching to their own choir.

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Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin

Surely Cahill would be parading this multitude of straw buyers through the streets if they actually existed. I've only seen a couple of cases make headlines, and considering how even airguns are shown in media photos as part of "illegal weapons" seizures when they turn up at a bust, the absence of stories about newly charged or convicted straw buyers is a big red flag.

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The last time I heard of a straw buyer that made it to the news for buying guns and onselling them to unlicenced people (gang members?) was NOT picked up by the register as it had not started yet. It was p[icked up by a large gunstore noticing something unusual in their own sales records and they bought it to the Police for investigation yet somehow Cahill and the media made it seem like the gunshops fault... And if it had not been for the meticulus attention to detail by the gun shop the Police would have never known 'cos they certainly were not looking....

I’m sure there are a few straw buyers out there. It would be a bloody miracle if there wasn’t given the police & powers that be thought it was ok to grant FAL to gang members, associates & 501 deportees. WTF ?!? It’s exactly the same problem that lead to the Tarrant situation.

The stupid (actually its negligence) outcome of the police, politicians & media refusing to recognise the biggest risk out there, which is illegal importation of firearms is that this risk is not being addressed!! Can’t fix something until you get your big boys pants on & admit there’s a problem. Failure to do this is negligence imo.

The register is always at risk of being leaked, compromised or hacked. In fact all 3. And it’s already been compromised by police staff on at least one case the public are aware of. Yes, if the administration of registry sat with another govt department the same risks apply. The stupid (dangerous) part about the way this register has been set up is that multiple govt entities have access to it. From memory 6 - 8 departments. So the risk of data getting leaked or sent to bad people is massively increased. Hence why I’m totally opposed to the register.

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Originally Posted by chainsaw

I’m sure there are a few straw buyers out there. It would be a bloody miracle if there wasn’t given the police & powers that be thought it was ok to grant FAL to gang members, associates & 501 deportees. WTF ?!? It’s exactly the same problem that lead to the Tarrant situation.

The stupid (actually its negligence) outcome of the police, politicians & media refusing to recognise the biggest risk out there, which is illegal importation of firearms is that this risk is not being addressed!! Can’t fix something until you get your big boys pants on & admit there’s a problem. Failure to do this is negligence imo.

The register is always at risk of being leaked, compromised or hacked. In fact all 3. And it’s already been compromised by police staff on at least one case the public are aware of. Yes, if the administration of registry sat with another govt department the same risks apply. The stupid (dangerous) part about the way this register has been set up is that multiple govt entities have access to it. From memory 6 - 8 departments. So the risk of data getting leaked or sent to bad people is massively increased. Hence why I’m totally opposed to the register.

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Well, we don't know that the importation is a majority of the risk because only 7% of the containers are checked. We can say we think this may be a major source, but we can't prove it. We need to check more containers, period.

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Originally Posted by 308

So you're saying "yes we are shit but so is everyone else"

If this is your idea of a logical argument maybe you should stick with play-doh

Police have failed with databases (C-cat and E cat riddled with errors) cost overruns (INCIS) and even had several officers disciplined for accessing information illegally (numerous but the latest was all the coppers checking the file of the officer killed by some Nelson scum on NYE)

Police are not trusted with administering the register because they keep fucking it up

Stop trying to say that the grass is blue and the sky is green

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Unsure why you need to be so angry all the time and like to insult.

Your misinterpreting what I’m saying, as long as there are people running data bases there is always the chance of a data leak regardless of what checks and balances are put in place and regardless of what government department hold information.

Yes, by all means place the firearms registry into the hands of someone independent of the police, change the name, flash lettering, give it a colour but you still run into the issues of potential data leaks!

In a perfect world we wouldn’t need databases and like you I was also against registration as it didn’t work the first time around here in NZ which is why it got abolished in 1983 and from what I see it’s not working in other countries either for that matter, think of Canada as a recent example.

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Originally Posted by Seventenths

Unsure why you need to be so angry all the time and like to insult.

Your misinterpreting what I’m saying, as long as there are people running data bases there is always the chance of a data leak regardless of what checks and balances are put in place and regardless of what government department hold information.

Yes, by all means place the firearms registry into the hands of someone independent of the police, change the name, flash lettering, give it a colour but you still run into the issues of potential data leaks!

In a perfect world we wouldn’t need databases and like you I was also against registration as it didn’t work the first time around here in NZ which is why it got abolished in 1983 and from what I see it’s not working in other countries either for that matter, think of Canada as a recent example.

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Don't worry about him, the bloke is a fuckin tosser who likes to think he is far more important than he really is.

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Originally Posted by inglishill

Well, we don't know that the importation is a majority of the risk because only 7% of the containers are checked. We can say we think this may be a major source, but we can't prove it. We need to check more containers, period.

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They won't address this, as its just too big of a problem. Over a Million TEU's enter NZ annually. Divide by 365 = 2740 A DAY

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Originally Posted by XR500

They won't address this, as its just too big of a problem. Over a Million TEU's enter NZ annually. Divide by 365 = 2740 A DAY

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Then we will never know, either way. Well, we will, once they stop the ability for anyone to get firearms and confiscate all the known ones, and, we still have gun crime, they will be forced to.

They have this mat.....

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Originally Posted by Seventenths

Unsure why you need to be so angry all the time and like to insult.

Your misinterpreting what I’m saying, as long as there are people running data bases there is always the chance of a data leak regardless of what checks and balances are put in place and regardless of what government department hold information.

Yes, by all means place the firearms registry into the hands of someone independent of the police, change the name, flash lettering, give it a colour but you still run into the issues of potential data leaks!

In a perfect world we wouldn’t need databases and like you I was also against registration as it didn’t work the first time around here in NZ which is why it got abolished in 1983 and from what I see it’s not working in other countries either for that matter, think of Canada as a recent example.

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I'm only angry when people try pissing in my pocket then tell me it's raining and I only insult people who are deserving of such sobriquets as police apologist, you get the idea. If I wanted to actually insult you rather than calling out your idea as bullshit then you would know all about it

I am not misrepresenting what you are saying, I understand that there is relative performance of government departments, I am saying that police are knuckle-draggers compared to the IT abilities of IRD or even Internal Affairs or whatever the hell they are calling themselves these days
We all know that ACC is a bullying culture, Corrections is a shitshow and KO are wasteful eedjits who ignore a budget in favour of the treaty

I'm saying that Popo have form in this area for screwing things up and also. as Scotty pointed out above thread, they have shown their politicisation as being anti FAL owners and are now a political pressure group and therefore have a conflict of interest

Please do not forget, Police have shown their hand as being anti FAL and as such they are now our enemies - I spoke to a guy I work with only last week about an ongoing crime being committed and will I report it? Fuck no
If a problem occurs in my neighbourhood will I call Police? Haha you must be joking

That ship has sailed and gone

I'll comply with the law as far as I have to but the blue gang can go take a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut as far as I care

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Originally Posted by 308

I am saying that police are knuckle-draggers compared to the IT abilities of IRD or even Internal Affairs or whatever the hell they are calling themselves these days
We all know that ACC is a bullying culture, Corrections is a shitshow and KO are wasteful eedjits who ignore a budget in favour of the treaty

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Knuckle draggers is a bit harsh, but from what I've seen police and others (DIA) are significantly underfunded for IT. So even things that are easy to do/fix get left.

And to make the situation worse, just as in past times firearms funding was seen as not of high consequence to divert to more pressing requirements currently IT is one of the "not front line" areas were significant cuts are being pushed through in just about every Govt dept to achieve the cost reductions on OPEX that has been required by the Govt to bring expenditure closer to the realities of the available finances.

In short, stand by for the legacies of mergers and underfunding on upgrading IT systems in the past to create a lot more issues going forwards. Also, the tendency for NZ to always want to do million dollar projects with hundred dollar resourcing doesn't help!

And their obsession with buying a turd and expecting a gold nugget

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Originally Posted by blip

And their obsession with buying a turd and expecting a gold nugget

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Hang on a tick...going by thir previous expentiture...they usually pay for the golden nugget but end up with the turd and still somehow think it is good value....

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Originally Posted by timattalon

Hang on a tick...going by thir previous expentiture...they usually pay for the golden nugget but end up with the turd and still somehow think it is good value....

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'Intelligence has its limits, but it appears that Stupidity knows no bounds......' - I like that, another good one is: Everyone has the right to be stupid, it is just that some people abuse that right.

I read somewhere yesterday that the government want to re introduce firearms training into schools.

Well, if it's anything like some of the sex education programs I'm not sure that training on firearms in schools will be very good. We will suddenly have 304 firearms safety rules, 27 new action type classifications and a plethora of colours to deal with...

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Originally Posted by No.3

Well, if it's anything like some of the sex education programs I'm not sure that training on firearms in schools will be very good. We will suddenly have 304 firearms safety rules, 27 new action type classifications and a plethora of colours to deal with...

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It would probably end up like religous Instruction...."This one is evil, This one is evil, This one is OK if you are a Police officer, This one is evil....Abstain from evil....."

Fuck some people are hard to please, I'm sure some of you specialize in finding the negative in everything :ORLY:
Maybe....just maybe teaching firearms safety in schools could be a good thing.

Yes, it needs good well qualified people to do it. There is the issue similar to the firearms licence training now - from my understanding it's basically gone to a teach-yourself online model so there are currently very few people actually qualified and Police-checked to go into schools to do this sort of training. I suspect it will get too hard very quickly just from my experience of having kids at school and the issues with even volunteering to help out at activities etc as Parent Helper - the bloody hoops you have to jump, hop, leap and forward roll through!

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Originally Posted by dannyb

Fuck some people are hard to please, I'm sure some of you specialize in finding the negative in everything :ORLY:
Maybe....just maybe teaching firearms safety in schools could be a good thing.

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@dannyb I would suggest the comments are a reflection of the trust a lot of us have
In the powers that be. Not only with firearms but in general.
They don't seem to like them sonitsbhard ton believe they will do something positive

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

@dannyb I would suggest the comments are a reflection of the trust a lot of us have
In the powers that be. Not only with firearms but in general.
They don't seem to like them sonitsbhard ton believe they will do something positive

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They have brought that on themselves with the unreasonable attitudes, demands and behaviour. Not much sympathy here sorry.

Back in the days of the old Mountain Safety Council Firearms Instructorate there were some 400-500 skilled volunteers who conducted the safety lectures and administered the written test to license applicants.

That was done away with because "we had to do a better job " - which actually was police speak for " we syphoned off most of the firearms budget into other areas and now we have got caught , and cant explain".

Factor that in with the politicising of the police by the Labour govt , and the hatred thrown at us by the media and most politicians in the period following the Chch shootings , and its no wonder Joe Public with a f/l has not only no faith but no trust in the blue gang.

It will take another generation for that hatred to disappear - I know I will go to the grave despising the police for their treatment of law-abiding citizens.

@tac a1 are you referring to the behavior and attitude of shooters and hunters or the govt and organisation's?

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Originally Posted by fawkes

Back in the days of the old Mountain Safety Council Firearms Instructorate there were some 400-500 skilled volunteers who conducted the safety lectures and administered the written test to license applicants.

That was done away with because "we had to do a better job " - which actually was police speak for " we syphoned off most of the firearms budget into other areas and now we have got caught , and cant explain".

Factor that in with the politicising of the police by the Labour govt , and the hatred thrown at us by the media and most politicians in the period following the Chch shootings , and its no wonder Joe Public with a f/l has not only no faith but no trust in the blue gang.

It will take another generation for that hatred to disappear - I know I will go to the grave despising the police for their treatment of law-abiding citizens.

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More than another generation, our children saw our pain, they will tell their children.

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Originally Posted by fawkes

Back in the days of the old Mountain Safety Council Firearms Instructorate there were some 400-500 skilled volunteers who conducted the safety lectures and administered the written test to license applicants.

That was done away with because "we had to do a better job " - which actually was police speak for " we syphoned off most of the firearms budget into other areas and now we have got caught , and cant explain".

Factor that in with the politicising of the police by the Labour govt , and the hatred thrown at us by the media and most politicians in the period following the Chch shootings , and its no wonder Joe Public with a f/l has not only no faith but no trust in the blue gang.

It will take another generation for that hatred to disappear - I know I will go to the grave despising the police for their treatment of law-abiding citizens.

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Don’t forget the government that motivated this distrust by insisting on these draconian changes after 2019. (Sorry mods, I know it’s taboo to discuss politics but I couldn’t help it)

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Originally Posted by Finnwolf

Don’t forget the government that motivated this distrust by insisting on these draconian changes after 2019. (Sorry mods, I know it’s taboo to discuss politics but I couldn’t help it)

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I don't think that is political, more factual.