Hey team,
I'm in the process of renewing my license, currently being vetted, that's what they told me when I rung them a few weeks ago.
Question is, can I still sell a firearm whilst waiting for my new one?
Printable View
Hey team,
I'm in the process of renewing my license, currently being vetted, that's what they told me when I rung them a few weeks ago.
Question is, can I still sell a firearm whilst waiting for my new one?
Has your license expired?
If so, had you applied for renewal plenty early? How early?
If you gave em plenty of time, then do as you see fit. They drop the ball, why should you accommodate them?
And I don't ever remember hearing anyone say you need a license to sell a firearm privately. Just to buy it. Could be wrong on that one, but I still don't see a problem with doing so.
Another question could be is your license still current ? if yes then you can buy and sell rifles with no worries.
lol snap 40mm :)
Actually if you don't have a license then you aren't allowed to have a firearm, let alone sell one I would think
Yeah, but if he is supposed to have a license but the PNHQ dropped the ball and didn't get his renewal done in a fair time, then he is hurting nobody by selling the gun to a licensed person. No different than giving or loaning it to someone to hold until his license has bee renewed.Quote:
Originally Posted by rugerman
You almost got me there Rugerman! But I did ask if his license was expired! : )
We must remember that the law is an arse.
Unfortunately we must follow that arselaw, even if those who are tasked with enforcing it do not.
"Arselaw" a terrible side on your plate at a terrible BBQ
Yes my license is expired,but I applied to renew it 5 months before it was due to expire
Your can't sell a firearm if your firearms licence has expired. Also, the person buying the firearm must sight a current firearms licence belonging to the seller.
If your FAL has expired you 'should' have them safely stored by someone who has a current FAL.
Said person could 'sell' a firearm on your behalf.
IE, A legal mate with you when you make the trade is all good in my mind. (I'm not a lawyer or legal buffoon)
Can't sell, can't buy, can't possess. You need to hand them in to Police, who will loose 3, confiscate one as it meets some definition of illegal and destroy it, and accidentally hand the other two to some other firearms owner. They will take you to court for owning the one they deemed illegal, querry why firearms registered to you are now possessed by the bloke to whom they gave them, and pay you half the value of the lost ones. The next day your licence will arrive in the mail.
Have fun.
I can find nothing in the legislation about the buyer needing to confirm the seller has a FAL.Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-Ring
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
Also the whole 'your license has expired hand them in or transfer to a FAL holder' is police policy is it not??
Well, I know what I would do.
Not policy - it is the law. You may not possess a firearm without a current (valid) firearm licence. It is up to you to make arrangements for their safe keeping by someone that is licenced. The person needs to confirm your new licence is current by sighting it before they hand your firearms back to you, or they commit an offence. They also commit an offence if they return the firearms to you and you haven't yet received the new licence.
Fluff around this at your peril. It is hot enough fuel to burn any chance of a renewal if you are found to be in possession of illegally held firearms.
Well, seeing as the gun is in unlicensed hands now. Then does the law say what the unlicensed, person is to do if they are put into a position where they have a firearm due to the police not doing their job to the required standard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin
This is an impossible situation, the gun is to be put into the hands of a licensed person, solving the problem.
No judge in their right mind would hear a case like that. Well I would throw the prosecuter out of the court room if I were the judge. And punish them for being a dickhead.
@40mm - you are exactly right. I would also give it to a licenced person at earliest opportunity.
Because there was ample opportunity to do so before the licence expired the authorities may take a dim view of the situation, and gambling on getting a policeman / prosecutor / judge in their right mind isn't something I would be betting my licence on. Absolutely agree this was allowed to happen by police being very tardy at their job. My licence renewal came through in 6 months and 1 day, only after I kicked up a stink at the 4.5 month mark and asked ACT to investigate.
Yeah, mine is due in 12 months, so I have the forms now and will get it off in the next week or two.
I hear what you are saying, and agree.
But I reckon it just needs to be gone, so it might as well be sold now.
@40mm - you are wise to get it in early. My advice is to keep the pressure in, and record every communication you have with police. Email is a wonderful thing!
Reading some of the advice here, Nicolas Taylor is guaranteed a living.
@10-Ring There isn't a legal requirement to sight the sellers licence - do you ask Gun City to show you a licence when you collect a gun there? But they definitely need to sight your licence (actually, they record the details of the transaction too).
@ROKTOY - Yes, a mate can buy/sell a gun on your behalf if they have a valid licence, but they commit an offence when they hand a firearm to you without sighting your valid licence. You also commit an offence when you take possession a firearm from said mate without having a valid licence.
This is serious stuff and if you fail to get it right and get caught out, you may not look like a fit and proper person.
I say this not to criticise, but in the hope that we all aim for 100% compliance, so we never have to surrender our firearms because we were in informed.
Thanks guys, between a rock and a hard place.
My firearms were given to my brother in law when it expired, a pain but it is what it is at the moment.
Will likely sell it when my new one comes through
Well, if you are standing there 'under the immediate supervision' of a correctly licenced person you can be 'in possession' of the firearm while unlicensed. You just aren't allowed to sod off with it away from the 'immediate supervision' - although there really isn't a definition of what 'immediate supervision' is. I mean, if you're the license holder and you turn around to take a piss (which has to happen as a basic life function) while you're 'handling your own weapon' you aren't really supervising your mate. I dunno - the entire setup from the top down needs to be arsed out and restarted with a view to common dog.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin
You're right Bol, I can't find any reference in the Arms Act 1983 and the Arms Regulations, latest version, to a seller having a legal requirement to show a buyer a valid firearms licence. The seller could be anyone who has possession of a firearm, legally or otherwise. Seems inconsistent with common sense. No, I don't ask Gun City or H&F (not that I buy any firearms from them) or any of the larger retail firearms sellers to show me their dealer licence. However that's based on the trust that they wouldn't be selling firearms unless they had a dealer's licence, which their staff, if listed on the dealer licence is legally allowed to do. I would definitely want to see a seller's firearms licence for some one selling a firearm privately.[/QUOTE].Quote:
Originally Posted by Bol Tackshin
There are definitely inconsistencies and things that make no sense at all, but it is the law. And sometimes the law is an ass! The firearms register is going to create a whole new level of things that don't make sense, but that are the law!
.[/QUOTE]Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-Ring
Not really - any sale by a non-FAL holder to a FAL holder gets an illegally held gun off the streets.
I can see sighting the seller's FAL (and recording the name/number) being a requirement once the register comes in, so that the transfer can be recorded
Yes, that was pointed out to me by Scott Stonex, Reloader's Supplies, who is a part owner and good friend. Even so, I wouldn't personally want to buy a firearm that may have been used in a serious crime, even though it's not the firearm that committed the offence. Each to their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
Going back to the original question. If OP has no license and his firearms are with someone who does have a license then that is fine. If the OP wants to sell one of his rifles to another person this is also fine with ONE proviso- the firearm itself MUST stay within possession of a licensed firearms holder. So OP can sell- purchaser pays OP and LFAO who is looking after OPs firearms hands the gun over to purchaser. OP will be able to handle and hand over IF he is under the immediate supervision of either of the LFAO present.
As for "owning" firearms without a license. You can own firearms without a license but they cannot be in your possession- they must be in possession of an LFAO. You are considered a non licensed person until you prove you have a license.
For example, some years ago, a younger relative of mine purchased his first centrefire from a shop 6 weeks shy of his 16th birthday. The rifle was his - receipted as proof of ownership, but the shop held the rifle in storage for him until his FAL arrived and he was able to collect. My understanding of the legal definition is that even though the OP has given his guns to an LFAO for storage while he awaits his renewal, by law the firearms are still his by ownership- he just is not allowed to be in possession of them.
perfect example of why all but one of my family members (to young for another month) are licenced and the periods are staggered .
No need for my rifles to leave the house as they are in possession of one of the other FAL holders in the house should my licence expire whilst waiting for renewal .
That's my logic anyway , but don't see how the police can argue with that .
Depends if you know the combo to the safe, or know where the keys are...