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Hey team,
Quick question, I was talking to my brother in law yesterday, he's going through renewing his license, they came round and told him, his safe wasn't upto scratch anymore. It's made of 25mm ply, full length hinge etc. All previous inspections have been good throughout the years.
They told him it needs to be a steel safe and gave him 2 weeks to sort it. Has anyone else had the same issues?
What's your thoughts?
Cheers bevan
Tell em to put that in writing and to back it up with proof that it is a requirement.
I'd say he's a victim of the longstanding issue of individual assessors putting their interpretation on things.
Here's the current stuff off the Police website -
(The document can be downloaded here https://www.police.govt.nz/advice-se...rearms-storage )
2.2 Lockable Cabinets, Containers or Receptacles
1. The lockable cabinet, container, or receptacle must be of ‘stout construction3
2.2.1 Wooden cabinets, containers or receptacles
For wooden cabinets, Police recommends the following:
1. The cabinet and door should be constructed of a minimum of 16mm
construction ply or a panel product of similar security rating should
be securely fixed through the existing lining to the frame. New
structures should have a similar construction if framed, or of a
similar resistance to attack if constructed of other materials.
2. All joints should be glued and secured with appropriate strength
screws. Screw heads should be secured so that the screws cannot
be removed.
3. The door should have a sturdy hinging system such as a ‘piano’
hinge (a continuous hinge installed inside the cabinet) and should
be constructed with a hinge pin of at least 3mm.
4. The cabinet should have a locking system that is compatible with
the overall strength of the cabinet. If a ‘Hasp and Staple’ is used,
then it should be of the type known as ‘Security Hasp and Staple’.
The locking system (and all fittings) must be bolted through the
cabinet and not screwed.
5. The cabinet should be secured to at least two surrounding surfaces
to prevent firearms being stolen by removal of the whole cabinet.
The cabinet is fixed to the building with at least 6 mm fasteners to a
rigid surface or support such as concrete, brick or through plaster
board to a stud or dwang. Fasteners of 6mm x 75mm long will
ensure at least 50mm of thread is engaged in the rigid support. Use
heavy gauge ‘coach’ screws anchored by at least 50mm and a
large washer placed under each coach screw head into the
framing. If secured into concrete, use similar gauge chemical or
expanding bolts. Where the cabinet is fixed to a wooden floor it
should be fixed completely through the floor. The bolts should have
a stout backing plate or sufficiently large washers to prevent them
from being pulled through the floor.
This "making it up on the spur of the moment" or "what I had for breakfast has upset me " is unacceptable and needs an official complaint to the cardboard cut out currently being overpaid as the Minister of Police.. Sadly however, Plod will get vicious and make the process as impossible as possible from there on inQuote:
Originally Posted by zimmer
Individuals going for new or renewed licence are in a very vulnerable position.
The person inspecting is not usually an arms officer or even police.
An enquiry from an established shooter eg sec / pres of a local club direct to the arms officer may obtain a more regulation based requirement.
On the other hand, if his ply is only 12mm or screw heads are showing then He’ll need to get a new safe.
I'm a cabinetmaker and I built it for him and also mine, there's no visible fixings. Someone would be hard pressed to get in there quickly and quietly. I used 25mm ply which at the time was abit excessiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Tell him to stop being a tight arse and get a decent metal safe.
A wooden safe that probably contains thousands of dollars worth of guns is a joke
To be pedantic about it they're not gun safes, they're gun cabinets unless of course you actually have a gun safe ex bank or similar that is large enough to hold rifles and or shotguns and which probably weighs at least 500kgs.
You need to systematically go through the new Police regulations Zimmer has referenced for various categories.
Does it meet them for categories, yes=pass no=fail
For A cat it's not too bad, they have stepped it up for everything though.
Those are guidelines, not regulations. At least until the next round of changes to the law that the police are proposing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson21
But I doubt that will solve the OPS brother in laws problem of not being approved even though it sounds like his security meets the criteria.
Yeah but at least if you have done what the guidelines say to best of what you can do with where you live you can argue point by point and hard for them not to approve?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
For A Cat Bunnings even had some steel ones that met Aussie standard. They weren't bad for around 300 bucks. Secure it, job done.
I'm wondering if the vetter was being clever and pre-empting what he thought was a near future cert?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cigar
And yes, they are guidelines but published by the police and posted on their website. If you meet or exceed their guidelines you should be good to go. Otherwise you could argue why have they hade the guidelines available.
Personally my security far exceeds the guidelines but one of my "safes" I would still only deem it a very strong cabinet. All the "safes" sold by the likes of Farmlands, Bunnings etc. are cabinets IMO.
My aim was never to just meet the vetter's requirements but to have a set up I was pretty happy with. My main safe would easily pass the battery powered disk grinder with fully charged battery and 2 disks std. A knife held to my wife would however open it in a flash.
They can only grind their way into a safe, or threaten you to open it, if they can find a safe.
A mate built his into his 2 story concrete house, right from the get go. He built it, so no one else knows whats under the concrete. Walk into his garage and its wall to wall crap on shelves both sides. Go over to one set of shelves and do x,y,z, and hey presto! Big safe door appears. Combo in and ...my oh my, what an Aladdin's cave:thumbsup:
Fuk it, eventually proper standardised requirements will come out in the future, eventually.
Save yourself the headache, get a decent safe, matter closed.
Define "decent safe"
REALLY?Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500
Not even Constable Plod? Surely he knows as it will have had to be sighted at least to be approved for the FAL and once he knows, surely that will be recorded somewhere linked to your mates FAL.
And then we all know how secure and safe that information is.................
There's a standard 6 gun A cat 'safe' to satisfy the casual observer;)
As others have said, it amazes me how people can have thousands of $ of firearms and scopes locked up in cheap wooden cabinets.
Yes the previous guidelines allowed for it, but you should always make it as difficult for pricks to steal your sh*t.
Personally I still have my old E-Cat security, ie 7mm walls and door 120kg safe and streaming CCTV to my phone, but I realise that isn't for everyone, especially people renting.
Only wish I had gotten a bigger E-Cat safe originally, run out of room now with all the new guns I've bought since the steal back. :D
25mm ply meets the current rules providing it is structurally sound and attached to the building, especially considering that it has been accepted under the same rules in the past.
Of course it does, but the writing is clearly on the wall for such wooden cabinets with the proposed regulations.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc
We on the forum know the regulations will be implemented 98% as proposed regardless of public feedback.
But I would suggest most license holders aren't aware, or don't care what is coming.
I'm expecting the new law to not have specific requirements and will simply say that the police guidelines are the legal minimum requirement. Then the police can rewrite the guidelines. So they can basically change the law as they please without having to get the politicians to actually change the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmatix
The proposal about having to lock ammo in a steel container seems to be a fairly strong hint that wooden cabinets won't be allowed for firearms in the near future.
Aren't regulations and orders in council wonderful?
What concerns me is the talk of proposing everyone having steelboxes in car to transport around in, make it too hard and then everyone just gives up.
People are struggling now with complexities of where arms act is going.
Does a skyline type shed qualify as a steel container" ??
Your car is going to look fairly dorky with one of those strapped on every time you head off for a shot!:omg:
Not if it's the latest Audi, BMW, Merc or American ute it won't!Quote:
Originally Posted by XR500