Carrying to avoid breaking the specific law of leaving it in an unattended vehicle must be considered a lawful reason. That is the inference of the specific law.
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Well Billy Joe, I have a song for you and Cordite and Kiwi Sapper https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rc...tr3xT_-g3LdWJV
My take in this case is that it was a certainty Lincoln would get the AOS called on himself, since he carried the slung semi in and out of, first a petrol station shop, and then secondly in and out of the public toilet, in Palmerston I think. Left plenty time for a police response and they caught up with him somewhere South of Christchurch. And he proved in court that the law is an ass and in the process demonstrated that cops lie and fabricate evidence. Police would of course only do that to people they've already determined are bad, so we are all safe-as-in-China from such happening to ourselves.
As it is, law society is a law to themselves, it is a private club, and they did not want to admit him in part based on this stunt, so what is legal is not necessarily OK for your career. One law degree wasted, and one man with study debts he can't pay. Don't hear much about RL these days, maybe he is keeping his head down sweeping the floors in some lawyer's office hoping to get in with the Law Society's good graces again. Freedom of speech, even if perfectly legitimate, does not apply to everyone.
Since the law is so specific any reasonable person must conclude that taking the firearm with you is the only legal option. Avoiding breaking such a specific law must be considered reasonable reason.
I think the only way to get better laws is for Police to be tied up wasting a lot of time and effort with people obeying stupid laws. Police seem to be driving a lot of law changes nowadays so give them incentive to improve things.
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Thanks for the link to the above image. Wonder if they also sell that rifle with serbian or cyrilic tipp ex scribbles on it. Yes, I know, bad taste.
Anyway, best is a base guitar case, it will accommodate all rifles, even a full length Type 38, though not with its bayonet attached.
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I dont read the law as being 'so specific'. I read 'proper and sufficient purpose' to mean that there is room for the Police to make a call on the situation and decide that there is 'insufficient' purpose. Where is @Sidney to please clear this up ??
Technically Lincoln was correct at the time....
There is a technical breach to not have the rifle in your possession outside of your own security provisions at your home address.
Clearly its a catch 22, the trick will always be how you manage the ambiguity. If the police feel that your have been responsible in securing your firearm, out of sight, inoperable locked inside an otherwise secure vehicle while you got to the toilet, or to obtain a meal, all whilst minimising the time away and perhaps seeking to remain in eyesight of the vehicle - then you are probably fine until you run into the arsehole who wants to get technical with you.
I guess Lincoln was being that guy... at the other end of the spectrum. I am not sure that he wasn't making a legitimate point, by pointing out the idiocy technically forced on us and the poor defensive bombastic inarticulate little policeman that day couldn't deal with it... But the willingness of the police to misrepresent, lie and fabricate evidence as a result of not liking effectively being held to account for trying to act outside of the law, is a warning to us all.
A dangerous game to play as all found out I guess...
Its very unfortunate that we have such power hungry regulators who believe that they should always hold the power but be the distributors of discretion. They want us exposed continually and therefore controllable. I am firmly of the position that society should only hold enough power to prevent disaster, not to subject individuals to punitive control.
Everywhere around me, I run into people who seem happy with the state having that power - its rather sickening, particularly when you consider that the state is supposed to be subject to the people in a democracy, not the other way around.
You, as a responsible firearms user, should plan your trip so as to minimise the likelihood of having to leave the (disabled) firearm in your vehicle. Come on guys, as John Key would say, "it's not rocket surgery"...
Actually if my firearm is in a locked vehicle and I have not been negligent in the manner it is stored or visible, then the crime is committed by the offender who breaks in and steals it. Not me.
But the way the law is at the moment, you are the criminal, you are the most likely to get prosecuted because apprehending the actual criminals is a whole lot harder. Understanding that is not rocket surgery either... and neither is it equitable.
The transference of responsiblity to those who have not acted or been negligent, or have not intended harm, to either prevent criminality, or to call to account for some unfortunate event is a fricken national sport for the emotionally affected and simple.
Someone must be held accountable is the catch cry of the stupid. We are riddled with this stuff, its pathetic, its neither preventative or remedial its simply retribution... and is about the exercise of force on otherwise compliant citizens.
Don't sanction stupidity.... the cost is more that we can understand...
AN interesting picture of Ariska 38s in British hands which initially had me pondering how it came to be, but eventually, the "little gray cells" finaly obliged. Does your source say which training troop / unit it is who appear in the your picture and when /where it was taken?
I doubt he is kidding, because he is right. I think you are misinterpreting what he has written. He says "minimize the liklihood", not eliminate. As in go to the toilet, get food or petrol whatever, but don't load up your car with all your hunting or competition gear then drive 5 minutes to your local supermarket and spend half an hour inside getting your groceries (or go to the movies!). Do that beforehand. Different story if you live in the wop-wops though and its not practical to do separate trips.
Picture is from this forum page: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/...risaka-rifles/ Appears to show some territorial army soldiers during WW1.
The venerable 6.5x51SR (usually called 6.5x50 for some reason) was adopted by the British early 1900s and some 150,000 of the t-38 rifle saw rear-guard action with the British army in WW1, purchased from the Japanese via middle-men as a stop gap while more SMLEs were manufactured. Official designations were Rifle Magazine .256 inch, Pattern 1900 (Murati, Type 30) taking round nose ammo, and Pattern 1907, the T38 (an improved rifle worked over by Colonel Nambu) which was sighted in for spitzer ammo.
The adoption of these two rifles and the EXACT copying of the Pattern 1900's bayonet as the P1907 bayonet explains how the heck the British army came to adopt a samurai sword! Everything Japanese was actually cool those years after the Japanese licked the Russians. How fickle.
Another link to a PDF with details: http://www.armsregister.com/articles...sh_service.pdf
Here is an article, The .256" British, a lost opportunity. Bemoaning the British army failing to adopt a perfect calibre. Aside from being a long action cartridge, the 6.5 Jap is arguably an ideal military cartridge with muzzle energy 1.5 times the 5.56x45 NATO and would do just fine with a boat tail.
I'm waffling. (-:
Well I for one don't see an issue with leaving a firearm in your car as long as the vehicle is registered , because apparently registration is a magical anti theft barrier (sarc)
This is the only image that I can find of a Police vehicle lockbox - I dont know if it is current. Surely if we transport our firearms in a manner equivalent to the manner in which the Police themselves transport ( and leave unattended ) firearms we are covered. If we are considered to be breaking the law, then we are breaking it no more and no less than the Police must be breaking the law ?? https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&ur...r4kDegUIARCBAQ
I asked about this and the taking the bolt with you was explained as for those "rock and a hard place" situations, needing to go to the toilet, going in to pay for gas etc" there's a pragmatic element where if you could demonstrate the necessity you could expect understanding, if you were just demonstrating desire/preference i don't think it would be so well recieved. There are some tough situations like when you are in accommodation while traveling and need to go out for food, chain and padlock can be handy but not always good spots to lock things up
No way I'm taking the bolt out or my BLR or a Winny 94 or Rossi 92, Marlin levers anyone?
Yes I can put a cable lock through the action but lets face it that will last 5 seconds with an angle grinder and a cutoff blade. Not all of us use or want bolt action tomato sticks.
I recall a news story about a guy from timaru, that was driving to Christchurch to deliver his gun to a gunsmith,
Rather than leave it unattended in his vehicle (a violation of the arms regulations 1992) he brought it with him when he stopped into to the public toilets in Ashburton, and was arrested by police for Carrying or possessing firearms, etc, except for*lawful,*proper, and sufficient purpose. (A violation of the arms act)
To my knowledge the arms regulations don't include prescribed penalties or offenses but for a violation of them and police can decide your no longer a fit and proper person.
The arms act 1983 does have offenses sections with fines and prison time, Possible on conviction.
So faced with possible arrest and criminal charges or a regulatory infraction and possible loss of licence which should you choose?
In the old days I used to travel to hanmer and greymouth from Nelson regularly with my 308 in a soft gun bag strapped to the side of my motorcycle . Stops for fuel included and no one used to bat an eyelid .
Doubt that would be possible any more .
The Police use a lock box. They cant remove the bolts from Bushmasters easily. The only solution for us I can see, is to copy the Police and use a lock box and where the bolt cannot be removed use a trigger lock as well. I believe that a judge would have to dismiss a charge of leaving a firearm in an unattended vehicle if the defense was that the firearm was secured in a way identical to that used by the Police
I recall a guy who was sitting his FAL test with me say that he had lost his license years back after buying a gun from H&F, stopping for a pie on the way home and being broken into while in the bakery. Granted that's a dumb as fuck thing to do, but it does suggest if the wrong people know you have a firearm in your vehicle - they will follow you and wait for an opportunity to take it.
I know we're currently getting spanked by the law, but some of these rules are pretty self explanatory.
A judge would be bound by what the law says, which is that it is illegal to leave firearms in an unattended vehicle.
A lockbox is useless if they steal the vehicle.
its illegal to smoke a cigarette inside a company vechille........ever seen anyone fined /arrested/sacked for doing so???????
yeah but they have had...how many is it now??? pinched in last couple of years....so we are actually BETTER at firearm security in trasit than they are..... maybe they should be copying us...LOL.
A well constructed lockbox is far from useless if it cannot easily be opened and the vehicle is recovered quickly after being abandoned with valuables removed as often happens. I have never heard of Police firearms being taken from a locked storage box, but Police vehicles are stolen quite often
didnt it happen last year???as loxbox keys were on car keyring???
Here you go,happened in 2019 -
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122...-and-gun-theft