Which in itself ties in with:
Budget 2016: Virtually Another Frozen Police Budget | Scoop News
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Which in itself ties in with:
Budget 2016: Virtually Another Frozen Police Budget | Scoop News
5 people are standing for the election of a new President for the Association.
It's interesting and informative to go into the Police Association web site for a browse. There is a story about Oconnors back ground which is interesting and nothing like the attempts that have been made to portray it on here.
Have a look for a broader perspective.
To be fair, a fal like what most forum members have would make no difference to how well a cop acts with a gun.the difference in use and mindset is just to large, sure it's not the same as the army either.
For both the police and military proper training is needed-if the tick I. There training box is called a license does it really change anything?
If joe blow like you and I could Cary in public for protection then there would be a case for the licance story be the same
Problem is that govt budgets don't seem to have room to fund the training-lets not forget that it's not just the ammo it's the extra bodies to cover the down time caused by proper training. Unless the $ is there I'm anti arming the police, if the $ was there I'm open to it as I know I would want it if I was doing the job and I struggle with the idea of expecting someone to do something on my behalf with less tools/training than I feel I would want to to the task.
How many cops have had a gun holstered on them for every job they attend?
How many times have they had a scuffle with someone whilst they had a gun holstered?
All you're saying is that the current system works.
I think you will find that your buddy O'Connor said this, so why are you asking me?
Remember he speaks on behalf of all the police officers you have talked about in your post, they voted for him.
I had a look too, maybe hes talking about a story in here
Police News September 2016 | Police Association
exactly this. Im anti full time arming of the police because they dont have the required level of training. It looks like they wont have the budget to carry out that training either, train the trainers. ammo, wear on firearms/maintenance, down time of officers while doing that training.
shooting is a perishable skill, hence why the military combat trades are constantly having weapons with them on exercise, be it tactical or not. Currently an NZ pistol license holder, doing the mandatory 12 shoots a year minimum, is more highly trained than an average officer.
We used to have an annual competition between the AOS, Army and the local pistol club, always finished Club first, the AOS and Army fighting it out the rest, was good because the Army brought boxes of ammo and nice things to shoot, both semi and auto, AOS brought some hot 357 and revolvers to bowl it down the range, guess that doesnt happen anymore:O_O:
Unless I missed something it does confirm that he's been in the police force since he was a teenager without doing anything else (unless you count a couple of holidays), so I'm not sure what Tahr was suggesting was dubious or non-factual about me asking if that was the case before.
The current system works?! So cops getting shot and shot at and having their cars stolen is acceptable?! What a stupid thing to say, easily said from an armchair though.
I personally know the cops that were shot at in Whangarei, they don't agree that they were in an acceptable situation, neither do their partners and children.
I've also spent entire shifts armed and have been in scuffles whilst wearing a firearm.
I agree with you Savage, nobody should be harmed doing their job, I don't think carrying pissy pistols is the answer, as I don't believe having a MSSA rifle is the right choice for an officer, I'd be issuing shotguns, that's just my opinion. But this PC world has shackled the police to a point where they cannot do their job, before arming, give you back some Mana, scum is scum and should be treated as such,
Start there and stop the pussy footing, back up with judges and laws with a back bone and it may just improve all round. I take my hat off to you, I don't know how you can control yourself.
It's the perfect choice for the average cop, They don't have enough range time to be proficient with high velocity weapons.Most of the time they use weapons in built up area's. When the supposedly highly trained AOS blows away innocent courier drivers it's amazing that they even consider AR15's for the rank and file.
If the police need firearms it is deadly force they should be using, shotguns would be far more effective, without long range stray projectile flying everywhere as was the case in Hamilton. A twelve gauge barrel is pretty hard to run away from!
Long range stray projectiles flying everywhere? That's the reason shotguns are bad news.
My Rem 870 with a improved cylinder choke won't keep all pellets from a OO buckshot load on a NRA D1 target much past 17m or so. Then one or two start missing the target, simply because of spread.
What happens when one of those nine pellets, fired by a cop, misses the felon and hits a bystander? What happens if the bad guy is 40m away, well outside the effective range of a shotgun?
How would some of those tiny WPCs handle the recoil from a shotgun?
I watched a three gun match at the Rotorua range once. It was interesting to see a number of shooters mix up their ammo to the point some got disqualified.
How would an undertrained cop be expected to get OO buckshot and bean bag rounds loaded in the right order?
Your idea is laughable.
Didn't the Americans find shotguns to cause more collateral damage than rifles?
I was told a story by one cop about losing his in a scuffle. IIRC he was called out to a domestic at a known gang house, went onto the property armed 'for insurance' but got blindsided by a couple of guys as soon as the door opened. Got a bit of a beating, surrounded in the front yard. After being roughed up he was retreating to the car and realised the holster was empty, dreading having to report losing it but as he was leaving one of the older wiser blokes from the house quietly walked up and handed it back to him.
He reckoned he was lucky that one of the calmer heads ended up with it, but also that things probably would have gone far worse for him if he'd managed to draw it.
I have to say it was very interesting being party to a conversation between a few current and ex cops about their hairy moments on the job. Got the impression they used to have a lot of fun practicing shooting in the past before management decided they were spending too much on ammunition.
I put it to the floor that Savage1 should be armed to the teeth with Pistol, AR15 and semi auto shotgun when he patrols through the Tikipunga Tavern car park. All those in favour?
My wife's son is a Policeman in Brisbane. He's a constable so he's active most of the time. In 4 years he hasn't drawn his pistol a single time, and his Taser only 3 times. Has never fired his Taser.
He says though that he wouldn't want to step onto the street without his pistol. They have live firing and pistol drills 4 times a year. The standard issue is a Glock and 2 mags and 30 rounds of ammo.
He seems quite knowledgable about the Glock, it's short comings and how to use.
Just thought people might find that interesting.
I agree that the situation is not acceptable, that's why he's off to jail.
I think you will find that any criminal action towards police or the public is unacceptable.
Do you really believe that the current system does not work and cannot work better with a few tweaks and that routine arming of police is the end all solution?
Also curious, did you vote for O'Connor?
One thing I've always wondered, for my owm amusement, is how "personal" is a Police man's rifle? As in, is a New Zealand Police officer "issued" a rifle that becomes their responsibility, or are they drawn from a collective pool when required? Do individual officers sight in their rifle or is it done by an armourer? Is an officer allowed to disassemble a rifle for maintance or remedial of a serious malfunction or is it sent to an armourer? I presume that being armed with a pistol, they would be taught to pitch the rifle in the event of something like a bolt over ride or a blown primer locking the gun up.
If you think the situation is not ok then why did you say that those outlined incidents were showing that the current system is working?
And what are the tweaks that would've helped in the mentioned situations? I'm all ears for new ideas.
I work with the current system, unlike you, and no I don't think it's working and police are being put at unessacary risk.
Ask a policeman?:thumbsup: