Thread: How Could This Happen ?

Positively identify your target. Basic stuff. It should be reported to police.

Originally Posted by Woody

Positively identify your target. Basic stuff. It should be reported to police.

We know that Woody but are new licence holders being trained with the 'How' to positively identify ?

Originally Posted by Woody

Positively identify your target. Basic stuff. It should be reported to police.

Not just that, but no shooting within 500m from any trail or hut. And it sounds like they were shooting towards the hut, so didn't ensure a clear field of fire.

I agree with @Moa Hunter, there's a distinct lack of training going into new licence holders. This spoken as someone who had no previous experience of any consequence with firearms before getting into the sport... I took it upon myself to read up as much as I could on firearm safety etc., but as someone else mentioned, this doesn't prepare you for the adrenaline hit in the heat of the moment. I think there's an obsolete expectation that firearms users have grown up being exposed to and trained in the use of firearms by older generations. I was pretty shocked when I sat my FAL test by the general ignorance of many others in the group.

I don't know if it's a funding / resourcing issue... I imagine the cost of a FAL would have to increase significantly to cover the sort of hands-on training we're talking about. No doubt there would be plenty who would volunteer their time, but then that may raise all sorts of liability issues (although the HUNTS course seems to navigate this okay).

In the absence of anything being done about it, I would strongly urge all you older & wiser blokes to take a newbie under their wing (as @Moa Hunter did for me). I appreciate it seriously compromises your hunting effectiveness, but for those who don't have someone to show them the ropes, you'll be potentially saving lives and starting a multi-generational chain of good practice.

Originally Posted by mopheadrob

Not just that, but no shooting within 500m from any trail or hut. And it sounds like they were shooting towards the hut, so didn't ensure a clear field of fire.

I agree with @Moa Hunter, there's a distinct lack of training going into new licence holders. This spoken as someone who had no previous experience of any consequence with firearms before getting into the sport... I took it upon myself to read up as much as I could on firearm safety etc., but as someone else mentioned, this doesn't prepare you for the adrenaline hit in the heat of the moment. I think there's an obsolete expectation that firearms users have grown up being exposed to and trained in the use of firearms by older generations. I was pretty shocked when I sat my FAL test by the general ignorance of many others in the group.

I don't know if it's a funding / resourcing issue... I imagine the cost of a FAL would have to increase significantly to cover the sort of hands-on training we're talking about. No doubt there would be plenty who would volunteer their time, but then that may raise all sorts of liability issues (although the HUNTS course seems to navigate this okay).

In the absence of anything being done about it, I would strongly urge all you older & wiser blokes to take a newbie under their wing (as @Moa Hunter did for me). I appreciate it seriously compromises your hunting effectiveness, but for those who don't have someone to show them the ropes, you'll be potentially saving lives and starting a multi-generational chain of good practice.

that is basically what the firearms officer said to me when the missus and my teenage son got their licenses recently. They breezed through as me being a hunter/shooter for nearly 30 yrs and the kids both growing up around guns and using them and being taught how and when to use them he was happy as to sign off on them. But he really struggles when he goes to interviews only to find that there is no history of firearms use in the family and zero experience with guns , from a safety aspect , to bring himself to sign off on them and will often dig deeper looking for a reason not to issue the license.

Originally Posted by Ftx325

that is basically what the firearms officer said to me when the missus and my teenage son got their licenses recently. They breezed through as me being a hunter/shooter for nearly 30 yrs and the kids both growing up around guns and using them and being taught how and when to use them he was happy as to sign off on them. But he really struggles when he goes to interviews only to find that there is no history of firearms use in the family and zero experience with guns , from a safety aspect , to bring himself to sign off on them and will often dig deeper looking for a reason not to issue the license.

when i did my pistol licence i had to do 6 months probation, should all new firearms licence hold be made to do say the znda hunts coarse and be mentioned by a club member with nro qualifications for 6 months before being signed off as fit to use a firearm.?

Originally Posted by mucko

when i did my pistol licence i had to do 6 months probation, should all new firearms licence hold be made to do say the znda hunts coarse and be mentioned by a club member with nro qualifications for 6 months before being signed off as fit to use a firearm.?

I think that's a tricky one.
It's certainly not a bad idea in principle , but could possibly be a major hurdle for some to complete a course simply through geography. All well and good if you live somewhere close to where any potential courses would be held. But being in the South island in particular there could potentially be ALOT of travel to get to said courses.
We are in Nelson for example which may be okay as far as course setting goes but it's five hours travel to the next major city such as chch so could potentially be a 2 1/2 hr trip to get to a course and the same home again if you live somewhere in between.
Plus we don't want it priced out of reach either.
We need as many FAL holders as we can to join the ranks and help remove the demonization of gun ownership and stand against any new bs laws.
Like I said... tricky.
But there must be a middle ground that can be found to increase training and safety without putting off potential gun owners.
Well those are my thoughts anyway...

Originally Posted by mucko

when i did my pistol licence i had to do 6 months probation, should all new firearms licence hold be made to do say the znda hunts coarse and be mentioned by a club member with nro qualifications for 6 months before being signed off as fit to use a firearm.?

Considering everyones comments so far and mucko's post, it seems unanimous that proper practical firearms skills training is required. The question then for me is who should do it. Would it make sense for the Military to oversea these courses and for them to be held at the training barracks away from the main bases. In Canterbury we have the West Melton Range and Barracks, it is some considerable distance from Burnham.
Should we wright to ACT and ask them to raise the matter ??

It is key in the Arms Code so in essence the shooter ignored the code. I would suggest the law should suspend his/ her licence pending a retest and vetting. Death is permanent and the effect on families from such accidents are severe. I have had four mates killed by other hunters and know of others as well as near misses. Recently I experienced a situation where I let two deer go in early dawn light because visual was marginal. Shortly afterward I spotted a group of poachers who were lying on a ridge directly in line with where those deer crossed. I was still shaken hours later and very glad I had not chanced a shot. Can't be too careful.

Also highlights why I don't carry animals out on my back and always butcher on the spot

Makes you wonder if the moron did not do it deliberately to try to intimidate their way into getting the hut for themselves. I mean in the open at a popular, well used Hut site, next to the Hut itself , while the guy is dressed in those bright yellow bike jacket & helmet ?

X2 on what @mopheadrob said.
Always a bit of a no-no shooting near huts when i was growing up. That was because of my mates dad, who was a forest ranger, and that rule did apply because of the predominantly non hunted track to the huts we used to frequent. Much more likely to see non hunters there.
Same went with the walking track they were on. Never had the gun loaded either. Did some very fruitless stalking on the tops by above the appropriately name top hut and its newly built replacement but quite a bit further around, plus a bit of the same by the old one hour back down the track, but again that was 10 min walk away and not on the track.
I will add though that some older school friends at that lower hut during some holidays in the rain and snow did resort to splitting some firewood with their 303's as some wanker had pinched the axe.
From this you could probably work out I havent done much hunting from huts. I'm sure there have been quite a few shot from huts now and again.
Bit of common sense applied here really but these young fellas have certainly been very fortunate they didnt kill someone

We were all brought up the same & not just from my old man any older hunter we were invited along with to show the ropes always drilled into us no shooting near huts & gun unloaded on walking tracks frequented by trampers etc. I can say in all honesty neither l or anyone l have hunted with have ever shot near a hut in my 30+ years of hunting.

Plus it was only up to a few years ago before they really cracked down on it that it was not unusual to find private camps scattered through even the remotest areas,made from everything from loca timber to tarps & ground plastic sheets.So you never knew when you would come across someone ,down here there was infamous old Hippy hermit that lived in one of my hunting spots right in the middle of a good patch of trees.He would make buttons etc from cast antlers & sell them at the markets once a month,he lived there for 8 years that l know of.

well we have taken great pains with my boy , and daughter for that matter , to drill into them when it is safe, identify target beyond doubt etc . When we were at one of our local huts around a month ago the lad beat us to the hut and came barreling back down the track , "there's 2 deer right next to the hut!' did you shoot at them "no" why not "cause they are right next to the hut and don't know if it's safe" good lad
Kinda sucked because we ended up walking out empty handed and he was gutted because he so want's to drop his first deer , but still had enough restraint to think before he acted .
So if the younger one's are trained properly there is hope and as much as I hate to say it knowing the costs would be added to our license , it is probably not a silly idea to actually have some kind of training at least in the practical side of firearms handling...say at an indoor 22 range maybe.

oh and as an aside there was one guy in my famdamlies course who wanted a license simply because his dad had died and he wanted to keep his old man's firearms in the family , apparently had no desire to actually use them.

....well there is no requirements with firearms licensing for training. Wasn’t any when I did it anyway. Not to say it wouldn’t have being a good idea but did grow up with them. With the greater urban/rural dis connect practical training wouldn’t be a silly idea.


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Originally Posted by tiroahunta

....well there is no requirements with firearms licensing for training. Wasn’t any when I did it anyway. Not to say it wouldn’t have being a good idea but did grow up with them. With the greater urban/rural dis connect practical training wouldn’t be a silly idea.


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the closest thing to training as far as a new license goes would be the mountain safety course they had to do, but even that requires no real practical knowledge of firearms to complete