Thread: not again

Originally Posted by Tentman

"All the pheasants ever bred won't repay one man dead" . . . Not an exact parallel but no animal is worth 3 lives lost/ruined.

Hunters/Firearms owners have a special duty to understand the value of life versus property (even livestock)

I understand and agree with what you are saying.

I also know that this tragic event didn't happen in isolation. There is a significant back story to it.

Further to that and without knowing all the details, regardless as to whether they are taking rabbits, pheasants or deer and pigs. Strangers carrying guns on private property without permission is a dangerous and frightening event.

I have enormous sympathy for those who have to deal with that on an isolated or semi regular basis

Originally Posted by Tahr

There seems to be a theme here that what ever happened is justifiable or was inevitable. Really??
As an ordinary citizen and a lawful gun owner that notion sickens me.

Well.

If you decide to enter someone's property with intent to steal,then what follows may not be predictable or pleasant

Those pigs were not asking to be stolen,some community members don't seem to understand laws,now those community members were dealt to illegaly .

Had the boundaries been respected, none of this would have happened.

As an ordinary citizen and firearms owner you must also understand that?

Originally Posted by norsk

Well.

If you decide to enter someone's property with intent to steal,then what follows may not be predictable or pleasant

Those pigs were not asking to be stolen,some community members don't seem to understand laws,now those community members were dealt to illegaly .

Had the boundaries been respected, none of this would have happened.

As an ordinary citizen and firearms owner you must also understand that?

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

Originally Posted by Tahr

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

Those two might have been shot with their own firearm for all we know.

Originally Posted by Tahr

What I understand is that the response must be justified and proportional to the severity of the breach. Legally and I think morally. It may not have happened if there had not been the breach, but the ends was a sickening over-reach perpetrated by a gun owner.

Speculating a lot there, until the details come out we just don't know. There sounds to have been a history of intimidation and threatening/violence towards the landowner, which changes the dynamic on safety and expectation. Still not justified if there was intent, but we don't know if the landowner stumbled over the two there without permission while carrying a firearm for other purposes and the situation developed or some other set of circumstances. I do agree it does not look good in general terms from what the media reported, but I'm not sure that the description there is at this point justified with how little has been reported so far.

Originally Posted by No.3

Speculating a lot there, until the details come out we just don't know. There sounds to have been a history of intimidation and threatening/violence towards the landowner, which changes the dynamic on safety and expectation. Still not justified if there was intent, but we don't know if the landowner stumbled over the two there without permission while carrying a firearm for other purposes and the situation developed or some other set of circumstances. I do agree it does not look good in general terms from what the media reported, but I'm not sure that the description there is at this point justified with how little has been reported so far.

My angst is that a theme here (on the forum) is that the justification or the inevitability of the shooting arises from the pre history, property rights and protecting the animals. Regardless of the what actually happened the only justification can be that he feared for own life. Whether or not that is what happened is immaterial to the "someone had it coming" thinking from some gun owners on here.

Even if they are wild animals, I don't believe that gives you right to take game on private property without permission.

They whole thing is a damn shame. There seems to have been a fair bit of lawless activity in that area of late, 3 or 4 weeks ago there was a carjacking, and a high speed chase involving a ute with a caravan and the police chopper.

I've fed those pigs on several occasions and without wanting to be critical, they wouldn't be my first choice if I was looking for prime pork.

Originally Posted by 7mm tragic

There seems to have been a fair bit of lawless activity in that area of late, 3 or 4 weeks ago there was a carjacking, and a high speed chase involving a ute with a caravan and the police chopper.

that was out of towners on a bit of a crime spree...... up there was where it finished not where it started......
but yes there are some feral types and a degree of lawlessness up there on and around the 309...we knew something was up when half a dozen skodys went flying past work and all you could glimpse was kitted up cops and buttstocks thru the windows.i get annoyed with the medias take when things like this happen citing "tight knit community" blabla what a crock of shit i noticed on the footage a couple of burnt out utes .
the details will start leaking out over the next few weeks because people cant help themselves they all like to pride themselves on knowing everything about everyone.....im sure other parts of nz are the same

The local riff raff KNOW to leave his pigs alone...I asked one of them who is very near n dear to me...my heart was in mouth when I saw the news as thought I may have funeral to organise. As said earlier the deceased was someone's son so no up side to this.

Does anybody know for sure if it was stu the pig man who was involved?

This is under name suppression. People shouldn't go identifying who it is.

Originally Posted by whanahuia

This is under name suppression. People shouldn't go identifying who it is.

@whanahuia

Absolutely bang on

"The true measure of a society can be found in how it treats it's most vulnerable members." Is a quote that often springs to mind when I read the news these days. This man (if it is who I believe it to be) seems to be more than a little eccentric and quite likely neuro-diverse, and it is extremely sad that he was pushed to this level of desperation by an element of society that appears to believe that they have the right to do what they want, when they want with impunity. I don't profess to know what the solution is but our society needs to take a serious look at itself.

The thing with this is that it's not just a Coromandel issue - many many rural parts of NZ have a major issue with trespass by people who are chasing animals onto land that they don't have permission to be on. It's becoming more of an issue in the modern age with H&S laws and the consequences for business managers and 'officers' who must take all practical steps to keep people safe. If you have people in areas that they don't have any right to be in the consequences are a little bit concerning. I am not aware of any test case on this yet, and a lot of people are wary of being the first...

Not something that should have been let to get to the point where it ended up in a fatality - on the other hand what can be done? As far as I'm aware even CCTV footage isn't enough to secure a conviction of trespass in a situation like this, so a landowner is forced to confront trespassers to do anything about it. It's a stupid situation and asking for trouble, as if you want the problem to stop as the landowner you really don't have any choice but to confront people who you know are armed in some form as they are dealing with large animals. Something really needs to change to have more of a deterrent to stop idiots from trespassing in the first place so it doesn't become the 'accepted normal' - and 'nah it's OK bro'.

On the money there No3 - esp your second paragraph. unfortunately i have quite a resume in that field and i want out of that scene, particularly after the last nose to nose where the poacher was on P or something. I think a lot of people dont realise how hostile some of these types can be, but you have no choice but to confront them. I wont go into (the many) details on a public forum but i feel real sorry that old guy being put into that situation. I think i need to make an appointment with our MP