Rules for a strong room (NOT for endorsed weapons)??

Hi Al.. I have just bought a house with a walk in safe, steel lined and reinforced door etc. It's huge and I dont have a lot of stuff and obviously dont want to start having to store anything outside the room.
Considering I dont have E cat or anything and am unlikely to, I am having problems with the new rules figuring out how to store everything inside it, or if that can even be done, especially with:
1) bolts/mags
2) ammunition
3) reloading supplies, powder/projectiles

Do I need a safe inside a safe?? can it even be done? There are lots of "shoulds" which is different to "must"... The rules in the new pdf doc only talk about the requirements for endorsed firearms.
In particular storing ammo anywhere else will be an arse.

Cheers

safe inside for reloading components/ammo everything else should be ok but ask the arms officer who will be inspectinf

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Howa1500

safe inside for reloading components/ammo everything else should be ok but ask the arms officer who will be inspectinf

---

You don’t need a safe for reloading components nor is there any requirement for them to be secured in any way. They are not ammunition

The way I tend to look at it is you have 3 components. Firearm/Bolt/Ammo. In cases like a lever action the bolt cannot be removed so the Ammo needs to be locked separately but can be inside the same safe. With how I understand what you have written your walk in safe is fine as long as you have a separate locked ammo box. Say Ammo Can with a padlock, you can have both the ammo & bolts stored in that and it be inside your walk in safe. The Ammo can does not need to be attached to the dwelling.
Commercial bought A-class gun safes have the separate lock box in side them so Firearm/Bolts/Ammo are all stored in same Gunsafe. As mentioned above reloading components are not ammunition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by omark

You don’t need a safe for reloading components nor is there any requirement for them to be secured in any way. They are not ammunition

---

you are right thats just how I and other people i know who store stuff in a room do it, mainly just for peace of mind and having everything in one place

My arms officer said I could Not have bolt and ammo together in the top compartment of my safe, one had to be in a totally separate lockbox

Look at it this way.
If someone gains access to your gun safe (no matter how big or secure) will they also gain access to your bolts and ammo?
If yes, then you don't meet storage requirements.
Basically bolts and ammo should be stored separately.

If you check out the Police website under "Firearms Storage" there are specifications for strong rooms.

stash your blots in the undie draw and ammunition in bottom of wardrobe sort of deal..someone gaining entry to your strong room then doesnt have the other two vital bits of the 3 part puzzle..... is long as they cant grab a gun and make it work with ammunition while inside your house...well thats all you can do...no point in making it easy for them....now and ammunion case with padlock on it inside your strongroom filled with old nails and a brick or two.....not so silly....they THINK they have the bits and leave.... not to say they wont come back later.same as a gun safe unsecured to wall with your cheap n nasty powertools in it....

Worth noting that under HSNO regulations storing class 1 explosives in a dwelling is not compliant. If your walk in safe (or room of stout construction in the parlance) is in your house you aren't compliant to have ammo in it at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by No.3

Worth noting that under HSNO regulations storing class 1 explosives in a dwelling is not compliant. If your walk in safe (or room of stout construction in the parlance) is in your house you aren't compliant to have ammo in it at all.

---

I believe this only applies above a certain weight and that limit is somewhere around 4-5kg.
I could be wrong, its a long time since I looked it up.

I would expect that the ammo box (for instance), would HAVE to be attached to the inside of the gunsafe room?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tasbay

The way I tend to look at it is you have 3 components. Firearm/Bolt/Ammo. In cases like a lever action the bolt cannot be removed so the Ammo needs to be locked separately but can be inside the same safe. With how I understand what you have written your walk in safe is fine as long as you have a separate locked ammo box. Say Ammo Can with a padlock, you can have both the ammo & bolts stored in that and it be inside your walk in safe. The Ammo can does not need to be attached to the dwelling.
Commercial bought A-class gun safes have the separate lock box in side them so Firearm/Bolts/Ammo are all stored in same Gunsafe. As mentioned above reloading components are not ammunition.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by floatingkiwi

I would expect that the ammo box (for instance), would HAVE to be attached to the inside of the gunsafe room?

---

No I dont think that is the case.

Take a vehicle for instance, a locked ammo box does not have to be secured to the vehicle.

Also your locked ammo box would be inside a safe so thats even more secure than ammo would be in the average persons ammo safe.

Pretty sure it is KEY to not over complicate things !!!!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by floatingkiwi

I would expect that the ammo box (for instance), would HAVE to be attached to the inside of the gunsafe room?

---

Ammunition needs to be locked in storage. It does not need to be fixed to anything.

Im just planning such a room niw in our new build. From my discussion with the AO they mainly want it set up so you cant grab ammo and rifle in one go, the aim being to hinder "impulsive" actions. So im planning a lockable grill type partition in my room, ammo and bolts one side, rifles the other.

Steel 3 drawer filing cabinet fixed to wall and locked , cheap as .If your lucky like me I got a 4 drawer fire rated unit with high security lock for 50 bucks only hassle was it weighted 250 kgs so a mission to shift , 2 x 3 drawer units with a solid core door on to makes a great reloading bench .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kukuwai

No I dont think that is the case.

Take a vehicle for instance, a locked ammo box does not have to be secured to the vehicle.

Also your locked ammo box would be inside a safe so thats even more secure than ammo would be in the average persons ammo safe.

Pretty sure it is KEY to not over complicate things !!!!

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

---

Nah, instead they've got a wishy washy statement about locking ammo in the glovebox, if possible.
What vehicles these days have locking gloveboxes and even back in the days when they did a screwdriver would easily force them open.

And at home, I cannot understand why your ammo box isn't required to be secured somehow.
Until recently I had my ammo in a 50 cal ammo can with padlock. It was stored under my reloading desk. How bloody ridulous is that? A nice folding handle to assist the thief pick it up and carry it away.

I have since bought a Spika ammo box/safe which is secured in the same manner as my safe.
I'm happy.

Always best to talk with your local arms officer, getting them on on side does you no harm. A whole lot better than asking a lot of well meaning but unqualified “experts” on here

Do NOT remove your bolts and magazines when your firearm is in approved secure storage (such measures are only required with 'restricted weapons' and 'prohibited firearms'). Your strongroom sounds as though it would meet lawful requirements for a 'stout room' at the very least and would be perfectly lawful to display your firearms on the wall. There is no legal requirement to remove bolts and magazines in secure storage, however ammunition must be stored in a locked container. It can be in the same room. As previously suggested, an old filing cabinet with lockable drawers is ideal. Removing bolts and mags just complicates things if you pop off before you are ready. Families trying to sort things out afterwards often have no idea what goes where, and guns get sold for a fraction of their value because parts are missing. Arms Officers are renowned for giving 'official advice' that is not required by law.

weird as storing the 3 bits seperately has been the done thing for close to 40 years....well at least 35 since I got my first licence..about the same time as cabinets came in....
we as family changed habits after cousin shot sibling with "safely stored" firearm while parents were next door..the gun in corner of kitchen with shells on bench for possums or cats (lived on farm out in country) changed for us from that day onwards..the whole mindset changed.... make it as hard as possible for child or chance burgler has been my mindset ever since.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

weird as storing the 3 bits seperately has been the done thing for close to 40 years....well at least 35 since I got my first licence..about the same time as cabinets came in.....

---

Compulsory removal of bolts and magazines for normal sporting firearms when in proper storage has never been a requirement of NZ arms law. It may well have been a 'requirement' of various Arms Officers but it was never a legal requirement. I spent a large part of my working life trying to source missing bolts and magazines for people who followed imaginary 'rules'. It is important to always read and understand all pertinent legislation that relates to anything you want to do, rather than blindly following misguided instructions from government minions.

This is the best idea yet!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by m101a1

Steel 3 drawer filing cabinet fixed to wall and locked , cheap as .If your lucky like me I got a 4 drawer fire rated unit with high security lock for 50 bucks only hassle was it weighted 250 kgs so a mission to shift , 2 x 3 drawer units with a solid core door on to makes a great reloading bench .

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by floatingkiwi

This is the best idea yet!

---

Thank you

My understanding is that if a deer is wandering across your garden, if you can get access to your loaded firearms fast enough to shoot it before it disappears then the security is inadequate :P :P :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SixtyTen

I believe this only applies above a certain weight and that limit is somewhere around 4-5kg.
I could be wrong, its a long time since I looked it up.

---

No weight limit to class 1 unfortunately. The 5Kg concom (or consumer commodity) limit only applies to the other classes of DG's. All except radioactive to be fair - you only need a tiny amount of the right bit of that to create drama same as Class 1!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gundoc

Compulsory removal of bolts and magazines for normal sporting firearms when in proper storage has never been a requirement of NZ arms law. It may well have been a 'requirement' of various Arms Officers but it was never a legal requirement. I spent a large part of my working life trying to source missing bolts and magazines for people who followed imaginary 'rules'. It is important to always read and understand all pertinent legislation that relates to anything you want to do, rather than blindly following misguided instructions from government minions.

---

and here speaketh the voice of commonsense and experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

My understanding is that if a deer is wandering across your garden, if you can get access to your loaded firearms fast enough to shoot it before it disappears then the security is inadequate :P :P :P

---

...I have a VERY wide garden:cool: