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Thread: Vehicle transport catch-22

  1. #1
    Member canross's Avatar
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    Vehicle transport catch-22

    Being new to New Zealand firearms laws I'm looking to get some further clarity on traveling with a firearm.

    I am looking to get input from board members on how one negotiates the issue of firearms in vehicles, and having to deal with them over the course of a long trip.

    For example, lets say I'm taking a long trip around New Zealand. I don't know anyone in other areas so can't leave my rifle with them along the way. Some of the trip will be in areas that I would like to legally hunt small game on public land. At the same time, I will be traveling through some cities and areas where A) staying within eyesight of my car isn't possible and B) taking my firearm out of the car (cased or not) will cause public disruption. In other cases, I may choose to go walking in areas that it is illegal to discharge a firearm, so carrying a firearm (cased or not) would be heavily frowned upon, if not outright considered an offense.

    - Is it expected that you just can't take a firearm with you if you can't keep it glued to you 24/7? That seems a bit ridiculous.
    - Is it the case that in effect the arms act permits for leaving a firearm securely locked in the boot in a locked case, provided it isn't done as a matter of regular storage?
    - Would removing the bolt in addition to securely locking the firearm change the situation?

    For context to why I'm asking: in Canada the law permits a firearm to be stored in a vehicle (any container that can not be opened without the use of tools is considered a suitable firearms container), so it was never something I had to think about. Add to that a permanently mounted steel box in the boot and it's more secure than in the house.

    The arms act reference to vehicles:
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regul...25_se&p=1&sr=1

    The police firearms manual states " “Unattended” means that the licence holder is not within or on the vehicle, or does not have the vehicle under continuous observation". I do not however see this clarification in the arms act itself, so it does not apparently have any legal weight. IE it is an interpretation and best practice endorsed by the police, but not written in law.

    I'm not out to rattle anyone's cage, I just want to understand what is actually the law, what is functionally enforced (where different, more or less than the letter of the law), and what is the status quo. Whatever the case I don't want to end up like the guy that had guns pointed at him for legally transporting a cased rifle ( https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/ne....post.82658872 )
    Last edited by canross; 18-04-2018 at 07:00 PM.

  2. #2
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    I think commonsensical to come into play, sadly the legal side of it you have defined well.

    I make sure bolt is out, in locked gun case and buried under things, ammo locked up separately. If leaving the vehicle bolts and ammo (depending on amount) come with me in my pocket

  3. #3
    Member 40mm's Avatar
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    hi there, you cant leave it un attended in your vehicle ever.


    But...........
    i have been told by police more than once to do so! I then asked them to put that in writing...... They were not keen!

    So if you want to be covered id suggest writing to the local arms officer and getting the formal answer in writing!

    The police are mostly ok, but have an annoying habit of making up rules as they please.

    for example:
    I took a rifle into pak n save ( in a bag) and someone got a little scared for their life and called the police.
    I got home and the cops stopped in to have a chat.
    I told them I was doing what the law requires (not leaving my firearm unattended)
    They said I should have avoided the situation.
    I said avoiding it would be nice but not an option, as I needed beers.
    They said I should have left the rifle in the car.
    I said that was illegal and that if my car got stolen the cops would not hesitate to prosecute me for leaving a firearm unattended.
    They got shitty.
    I told them I would do it again if need be.
    They got shittier.
    I suggested they speak to an arms officer and a lawyer.
    They left after failing to put me in my place.

    There is no way i will ever risk my licence, that cop was a meat head.

    What he should have done was tell the person who complained what the law actually requires me to do, and then warn them for wasting police time.

    If the gun is in a bag then I am surely not armed and READY to go postal??????

    Share my frustration at the simpletons and their simple thought processes! (or lack of)
    Use enough gun

  4. #4
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    Mentioned my case elsewhere but: similar experience in that when travelling, wife wanted to visit botanical gardens. Local AO told me to leave rifles in car but “don’t go too far away.” Did not go to the gardens. My solution was to buy a cheap golf trundler, wrap the cased rifles in a travel rug before strapping to golf cart and trundling round the paths. Might raise a few eyebrows, but “Lost ball” comment would soon sort that out. The law is an ass at times.
    223nut and 40mm like this.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40mm View Post
    hi there, you cant leave it un attended in your vehicle ever.


    But...........
    i have been told by police more than once to do so! I then asked them to put that in writing...... They were not keen!

    So if you want to be covered id suggest writing to the local arms officer and getting the formal answer in writing!

    The police are mostly ok, but have an annoying habit of making up rules as they please.

    for example:
    I took a rifle into pak n save ( in a bag) and someone got a little scared for their life and called the police.
    I got home and the cops stopped in to have a chat.
    I told them I was doing what the law requires (not leaving my firearm unattended)
    They said I should have avoided the situation.
    I said avoiding it would be nice but not an option, as I needed beers.
    They said I should have left the rifle in the car.
    I said that was illegal and that if my car got stolen the cops would not hesitate to prosecute me for leaving a firearm unattended.
    They got shitty.
    I told them I would do it again if need be.
    They got shittier.
    I suggested they speak to an arms officer and a lawyer.
    They left after failing to put me in my place.

    There is no way i will ever risk my licence, that cop was a meat head.

    What he should have done was tell the person who complained what the law actually requires me to do, and then warn them for wasting police time.

    If the gun is in a bag then I am surely not armed and READY to go postal??????

    Share my frustration at the simpletons and their simple thought processes! (or lack of)
    Your simple minded thought process scares me.

    I think the law says you can't leave a gun unattended in a vehicle.

    I don't think that is the same as the law saying you can take your guns anywhere you like.

    You were fucking stupid to take the gun, even in a bag, into a supermarket. Doing that makes all gun owners look like irresponsible dickheads.

    Taking a gun into a supermarket to buy alcohol DID risk your licence.

    If I saw someone with a gun in any shop other than a sports shop, I'd call the cops too.
    40mm likes this.
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  6. #6
    Member Tommy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post

    If I saw someone with a gun in any shop other than a sports shop, I'd call the cops too.
    That's cos you're a complete dickhead though Lee, no-one would expect anything less of you.
    Identify your target beyond all doubt

  7. #7
    Member Savage1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40mm View Post
    hi there, you cant leave it un attended in your vehicle ever.


    But...........
    i have been told by police more than once to do so! I then asked them to put that in writing...... They were not keen!

    So if you want to be covered id suggest writing to the local arms officer and getting the formal answer in writing!

    The police are mostly ok, but have an annoying habit of making up rules as they please.

    for example:
    I took a rifle into pak n save ( in a bag) and someone got a little scared for their life and called the police.
    I got home and the cops stopped in to have a chat.
    I told them I was doing what the law requires (not leaving my firearm unattended)
    They said I should have avoided the situation.
    I said avoiding it would be nice but not an option, as I needed beers.
    They said I should have left the rifle in the car.
    I said that was illegal and that if my car got stolen the cops would not hesitate to prosecute me for leaving a firearm unattended.
    They got shitty.
    I told them I would do it again if need be.
    They got shittier.
    I suggested they speak to an arms officer and a lawyer.
    They left after failing to put me in my place.

    There is no way i will ever risk my licence, that cop was a meat head.

    What he should have done was tell the person who complained what the law actually requires me to do, and then warn them for wasting police time.

    If the gun is in a bag then I am surely not armed and READY to go postal??????

    Share my frustration at the simpletons and their simple thought processes! (or lack of)
    Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

    It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

    You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.
    veitnamcam, ebf, Survy and 7 others like this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by systolic View Post
    Your simple minded thought process scares me.

    I think the law says you can't leave a gun unattended in a vehicle.

    I don't think that is the same as the law saying you can take your guns anywhere you like.

    You were fucking stupid to take the gun, even in a bag, into a supermarket. Doing that makes all gun owners look like irresponsible dickheads.

    Taking a gun into a supermarket to buy alcohol DID risk your licence.

    If I saw someone with a gun in any shop other than a sports shop, I'd call the cops too.
    Not the best example given - but there will be times when on an extended journey that you cannot satisfy the law without taking your firearm with you: everyone needs to piss, eat, sleep etc. Even you could fall foul of the law as it stands.
    veitnamcam, Jexla and 40mm like this.

  9. #9
    Member MightyBoosh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickoli View Post
    Not the best example given - but there will be times when on an extended journey that you cannot satisfy the law without taking your firearm with you: everyone needs to piss, eat, sleep etc.
    I agree. The law is stupid in this respect.
    Jexla and Cordite like this.

  10. #10
    Almost literate. veitnamcam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

    It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

    You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.
    What do you suggest in the OPs (and many others) situation?
    Rule 3: Load a firearm only when ready to fire

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  11. #11
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    Shit some the stuff I see daily would blow ya mind

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by veitnamcam View Post
    What do you suggest in the OPs (and many others) situation?
    Shit come on, clearly you say in vehicle, shit in vehicle eat in vehicle, then hand in deadly weapon of mass destruction for destruction
    When you need food

  13. #13
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    Well... You could say that you are travelling in between ranges. Could work.

    Sent from my TA-1024 using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    @systolic, you made a similar outburst in the past on the guy attracting AOS because he had to visit the toilet en route. I agree it would be useful to get your constructive advice for the original poster.

    Asked our local arms officer re this issue when doing the firearms safety course. No clear advice, just a hint that if the car should be stolen and the firearm with it, it would be a mitigating circumstance that I had taken the bolt with me. I am not really keen on a mitigating circumstance but some advice that will keep me entirely on the safe side of the law.

    Some workable solutions to this ass of a law:

    1. Takedown rifle, folds into smaller bags not obviously made for carrying guns.

    Name:  savage_model_42_takedown_5_things_f.jpg
Views: 346
Size:  148.7 KB

    2. If your rifle is too long, a bigger bag which again does not look like a gun bag.

    Name:  41ROf-K1IBL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg
Views: 351
Size:  18.7 KB

    3. If you go with your rifle where you can't shoot or mustn't shoot, just leave the ammo in the car and go for a concealed firearm option. DO NOT leave the firearm in your car. If it's to heavy to carry everywhere, then you are too fat.
    madjon_ likes this.
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  15. #15
    Member gadgetman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savage1 View Post
    Personally I would've told you to plan your affairs better so as you're not required to carry a firearm into a supermarket to replenish your non essential alcohol supplies.

    It could easily be argued that carrying a firearm into a supermarket to buy beer because you didn't want to go home and secure it first is not a reasonable excuse.

    You can get on your high horse, but carrying a gun into a supermarket to buy beer is always going to come across as stupid.
    Stopping off for beers on the way home from a local hunt / range, yes, could plan better. An extended trip for other supplies not so easy, and by inference from the law as written it is a requirement for you to carry them.
    There are only three types of people in this world. Those that can count, and those that can't!

 

 

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