when your neighbour discharges a firearm recklessly and the cops do......

So this story starts end of last month....
Twas the night before Friday when all through the house not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse....
Except me, it was just after 1:00am and I was awake reading...when I heard a rifle shot, close, too close, close enough to be on my property, I jumped into me ruggers and popped out the back door for a listen....a few seconds later a ricochet went tumbling past me, the gap between me and the projectile was around 8-10 metres, this was quickly followed by another round hitting a tree, down below me. It sounded like a .22 but I wasn't willing to find out the hard way!

At this point I had two options, stick my head over the bank and interrogate the idiot below...or retreat and call for back up, the latter seemed like the safer option with less chance of me being mistaken for a possum.
It was at this point that I switched on the security flood and heard a couple of male voices in brief discussion, followed by dead silence.

Calling the cops, I was interrogated for just over 19 minutes, including if I was a FAL holder and how many guns were in my possession (I fail to see how this was relevant as my rifles were where they were supposed to be, in the safe)
I was told that someone would be attending but they couldn't say how quickly, fair enough, we live out in the wop wops.

Around 4:30AM I called 105 to see what was happening and was told no one would be attending until later in the day!
I got a call around 9:30AM by one of the local cops when I was 45 minutes away from home, so I called them when I was home and they were there in 10 minutes.
Talks were had and I was told that "we get this all the time, HQ won't action a local patrol and if we'd have known we'd have attended as we know that's not normal for your patch, we never come up here as it's so quiet"
They promised to follow up with the neighbour and I got a follow up call on the Sunday.
My fuckwit neighbour had been visited, denied knowledge of everything and were reminded of their responsibilities as a FAL holder, including NOT discharging their firearm on their property AT ALL as they have NO safe backstop seeing as they live on a deadflat section surrounded by lifestyle blocks and the only contour is 100m inside my boundary. It was offered that they were happy to trespass him and I've a mind to do that(and sew that part of my property with trail cams so if he so much as puts a pinky over the boundary, he's in breach of trespass and off to jail you go) I can't prove that it was him but you'd need pretty big balls to wander through his section to shoot possums in the trees on my property less than 60 metres from his house, so the probability weighs heavily in that direction.

My point is this, at what stage will the cops respond? After someone's been shot? As I said to the local cop, this experience has shown me that we're far from help and in a worst case scenario where I'm confronted by someone on my property waving a firearm around, help is too far away and this ain't Texas - where you are allowed, if someone rocks up at your home with a gun (or without a gun and tries to steal something) you're allowed to shoot them. So I feel my only resource should an intruder with a gun showup on my property, is to call the cops and then prepare to defend myself.

It's not ever a situation I really thought I would find myself in, with all the rah rah around the overhaul of the Firearms Act, should that include a definite process for police to adhere to for ANY incident involving firearms....and should that include powers to enter and check firearms on the premises without a warrant....being that a "crime" has just been committed?

I look forward to your thoughts and any suggestions you might have to get the police to respond with urgency in the future.
I have made an OIA request to police in preparation for a complaint to IPCA.....what good that will do I don't know but....I'm told it's the only way things will change

Had something similar happen at one of my places. Fukwits were shooting at a shelter belt with a 12g and our house was on the other side of it and getting hit. Kids were home as well so got them inside. About 4 or 5 shots hit the house. After it finished I went over to the neighbours place and asked to have a look at his shotgun, then thanked him and walked off with it. He was like hey what are you doing I said Im keeping it and told him why. His face just dropped and after a bit of silence started appoligising and asking if there was any damage that needed fixing. There wasnt anything really bad but I still kept his gun and he didnt argue about it.

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Originally Posted by blip

Had something similar happen at one of my places. Fukwits were shooting at a shelter belt with a 12g and our house was on the other side of it and getting hit. Kids were home as well so got them inside. About 4 or 5 shots hit the house. After it finished I went over to the neighbours place and asked to have a look at his shotgun, then thanked him and walked off with it. He was like hey what are you doing I said Im keeping it and told him why. His face just dropped and after a bit of silence started appoligising and asking if there was any damage that needed fixing. There wasnt anything really bad but I still kept his gun and he didnt argue about it.

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That suggests he maybe didn't have a FAL or you're more menacing than me! If it had been daylight I'd have paid a visit but I fully expected the cops to attend....

This situation sounds serious and is capable of escalating to needing proper legal advice.

While I’m sure most here appreciate your enquiry, the only advice you should take on board is from a legal professional.

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

This situation sounds serious and is capable of escalating to needing proper legal advice.

While I’m sure most here appreciate your enquiry, the only advice you should take on board is from a legal professional.

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I'm well along pursuing legal avenues and without proof there's not much I can do but......fate has a way of working things out, I've noticed.
I'm interested in the thoughts of others as a balance check :thumbsup:

I believe all will say legal advice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zedrex

So this story starts end of last month....
Twas the night before Friday when all through the house not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse....
Except me, it was just after 1:00am and I was awake reading...when I heard a rifle shot, close, too close, close enough to be on my property, I jumped into me ruggers and popped out the back door for a listen....a few seconds later a ricochet went tumbling past me, the gap between me and the projectile was around 8-10 metres, this was quickly followed by another round hitting a tree, down below me. It sounded like a .22 but I wasn't willing to find out the hard way!

At this point I had two options, stick my head over the bank and interrogate the idiot below...or retreat and call for back up, the latter seemed like the safer option with less chance of me being mistaken for a possum.
It was at this point that I switched on the security flood and heard a couple of male voices in brief discussion, followed by dead silence.

Calling the cops, I was interrogated for just over 19 minutes, including if I was a FAL holder and how many guns were in my possession (I fail to see how this was relevant as my rifles were where they were supposed to be, in the safe)
I was told that someone would be attending but they couldn't say how quickly, fair enough, we live out in the wop wops.

Around 4:30AM I called 105 to see what was happening and was told no one would be attending until later in the day!
I got a call around 9:30AM by one of the local cops when I was 45 minutes away from home, so I called them when I was home and they were there in 10 minutes.
Talks were had and I was told that "we get this all the time, HQ won't action a local patrol and if we'd have known we'd have attended as we know that's not normal for your patch, we never come up here as it's so quiet"
They promised to follow up with the neighbour and I got a follow up call on the Sunday.
My fuckwit neighbour had been visited, denied knowledge of everything and were reminded of their responsibilities as a FAL holder, including NOT discharging their firearm on their property AT ALL as they have NO safe backstop seeing as they live on a deadflat section surrounded by lifestyle blocks and the only contour is 100m inside my boundary. It was offered that they were happy to trespass him and I've a mind to do that(and sew that part of my property with trail cams so if he so much as puts a pinky over the boundary, he's in breach of trespass and off to jail you go) I can't prove that it was him but you'd need pretty big balls to wander through his section to shoot possums in the trees on my property less than 60 metres from his house, so the probability weighs heavily in that direction.

My point is this, at what stage will the cops respond? After someone's been shot? As I said to the local cop, this experience has shown me that we're far from help and in a worst case scenario where I'm confronted by someone on my property waving a firearm around, help is too far away and this ain't Texas - where you are allowed, if someone rocks up at your home with a gun (or without a gun and tries to steal something) you're allowed to shoot them. So I feel my only resource should an intruder with a gun showup on my property, is to call the cops and then prepare to defend myself.

It's not ever a situation I really thought I would find myself in, with all the rah rah around the overhaul of the Firearms Act, should that include a definite process for police to adhere to for ANY incident involving firearms....and should that include powers to enter and check firearms on the premises without a warrant....being that a "crime" has just been committed?

I look forward to your thoughts and any suggestions you might have to get the police to respond with urgency in the future.
I have made an OIA request to police in preparation for a complaint to IPCA.....what good that will do I don't know but....I'm told it's the only way things will change

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I would be wary of adding that sort of thing. If there is not enough proof for a warrant then even though someone 'knows' what happened there would be no proof for a conviction. And the down side would be that if a warrantless search and siezure was to be made allowable, all an 'Anti ' neighbour has to do is make a false accusation and your gear is seized without proof and you will have to prove that you did not do anything and proving a negative is extremely difficult if not impossible.

Like so many things in the prevoius "Labour ' rewrite, there are already laws for these people ..Murder is illegal regardless of whether you use a semi auto , bolt action or bayonet....banning different types etc wont stop someone who is already prepared to commit heinoue crimes...in fact I do not even think it makes it more difficult....all it does is have aminor affect on weapon choice....

It's not ever a situation I really thought I would find myself in, with all the rah rah around the overhaul of the Firearms Act, should that include a definite process for police to adhere to for ANY incident involving firearms....and should that include powers to enter and check firearms on the premises without a warrant....being that a "crime" has just been committed?

Not to side-track but under present Legislation if you have a Firearms Licence the NZ Police do not need a Search Warrant to enter your property.

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Originally Posted by BSA

Not to side-track but under present Legislation if you have a Firearms Licence the NZ Police do not need a Search Warrant to enter your property.

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Not entirely true.
I'd suggest you read this advise from Nicolas Taylor.

Regardless of what legal advice is proffered here, I would agree with the addition of cameras of a decent quality

I think (know) you're wrong about going to jail for trespass.

That will never happen. At best he may get a warning, then discharge without conviction etc etc wet bus ticketville.

Thats most of the issue with our legal system at present. Way too soft.

The best deterrence for bad or stupid behaviors is consequences.

zedrex -PM Nicole McKee(MinJustice) and copy in Mark Mitchell min police as well ask em to "make enquiries".no harm in shaking the blue can up from on top is there,and itll show that police despite their so called aggressive attitude to firearms incidents is in fact polite indifference when it suits .

Your neighbour isnt a gang member are they? They are very reluctant to do much if thats the case..

Something similar happened in South Canterbury recently where a local farmer had a group of poachers under observation and called police.

Police advised they would not be responding.

Frustrated farmer calls 111 back and re frames his story, I am on my property and there are people with guns here, I'm scared please help. Police show up with AOS and red and blues going, catch offenders and threaten farmer with charges of wasting police time...FFS

Story passed to me by Mckenzie district councillor.

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

Something similar happened in South Canterbury recently where a local farmer had a group of poachers under observation and called police.

Police advised they would not be responding.

Frustrated farmer calls 111 back and re frames his story, I am on my property and there are people with guns here, I'm scared please help. Police show up with AOS and red and blues going, catch offenders and threaten farmer with charges of wasting police time...FFS

Story passed to me by Mckenzie district councillor.

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I'd love to see that go to court...enough to make me want to go back about 50 yrs, finish the law degree I started and become a barrister, for the defendant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

Something similar happened in South Canterbury recently where a local farmer had a group of poachers under observation and called police.

Police advised they would not be responding.

Frustrated farmer calls 111 back and re frames his story, I am on my property and there are people with guns here, I'm scared please help. Police show up with AOS and red and blues going, catch offenders and threaten farmer with charges of wasting police time...FFS

Story passed to me by Mckenzie district councillor.

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And thats why I dont even bother with them these days. Once upon a time the law was to protect the law abiding, I must of missed it but it got reversed at some stage....

To stop poachers,spray paint your gates rainbow colours and call them gay-ates.

Gay-ates will not be entered without consent!

Hate crime=jail time!

Why not just go over and have a chat with them about shooting elsewhere. Some where more appropriate without upsetting their neighbours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by kotuku

zedrex -PM Nicole McKee(MinJustice) and copy in Mark Mitchell min police as well ask em to "make enquiries".no harm in shaking the blue can up from on top is there,and itll show that police despite their so called aggressive attitude to firearms incidents is in fact polite indifference when it suits .

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Good idea, I'll copy my IPCA complaint to them, cheers

not that I'm aware of, he's just a self entitled GenY twat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 300_BLK

Something similar happened in South Canterbury recently where a local farmer had a group of poachers under observation and called police.

Police advised they would not be responding.

Frustrated farmer calls 111 back and re frames his story, I am on my property and there are people with guns here, I'm scared please help. Police show up with AOS and red and blues going, catch offenders and threaten farmer with charges of wasting police time...FFS

Story passed to me by Mckenzie district councillor.

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Thats bloody ridiculous, for those of us who are rural, we kinda know we're on our own but you'd hope you'd have recourse to official backup if it goes tits up!

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Originally Posted by Dicko

Why not just go over and have a chat with them about shooting elsewhere. Some where more appropriate without upsetting their neighbours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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If they were reasonable people I'd do that...but they are not that, as history has illustrated beyond doubt. If they were reasonable people they wouldn't have been shooting into our property towards a house in the first place!

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Originally Posted by Zedrex

If they were reasonable people I'd do that...but they are not that, as history has illustrated beyond doubt. If they were reasonable people they wouldn't have been shooting into our property towards a house in the first place!

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Have they shot in your direction since?
The issue of shooting in your direction may be resolved already.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Have they shot in your direction since?
The issue of shooting in your direction may be resolved already.

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Thats the thing, isn't it.
There seems to be no proof that the shots were fired by the neighbours, and they denied it anyway. The evidence is little more than a probability. And unsubstantiated.That wouldn't get a conviction.
The Police were likely certain in their own minds that the complainant's story was correct, and they probably warned and put a scare into the neighbours accordingly.
Im not sure much more could be done??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Have they shot in your direction since?
The issue of shooting in your direction may be resolved already.

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It's only been a week...give em time :o
More seriously you may be right BUT it shouldn't have happened in the first place...an accidental discharge I could understand...and forgive but 3 shots...nup, that's just no fucks given imo

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Thats the thing, isn't it.
There seems to be no proof that the shots were fired by the neighbours, and they denied it anyway. The evidence is little more than a probability. And unsubstantiated.That wouldn't get a conviction.
The Police were likely certain in their own minds that the complainant's story was correct, and they probably warned and put a scare into the neighbours accordingly.
Im not sure much more could be done??

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On the chance that it wasn't the neighbour, the OP is likely just poking a bear from here on in.
And with the scant evidence, and only one incident, making comments about barricading oneself in the house and preparing to "defend" themselves isn't painting a very good picture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

On the chance that it wasn't the neighbour, the OP is likely just poking a bear from here on in.
And with the scant evidence, and only one incident, making comments about barricading oneself in the house and preparing to "defend" themselves isn't painting a very good picture.

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I think your imagination is running away with itself, at no point did I mention barricading myself in my home, this isn't the OK Coral! My comment was more to illustrate that given the non response from the police at the time, should someone with malicious intent come onto the property armed (or otherwise for that matter) we're pretty much on our own. I'd be interested to hear what your approach may be in that situation?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Thats the thing, isn't it.
There seems to be no proof that the shots were fired by the neighbours, and they denied it anyway. The evidence is little more than a probability. And unsubstantiated.That wouldn't get a conviction.
The Police were likely certain in their own minds that the complainant's story was correct, and they probably warned and put a scare into the neighbours accordingly.
Im not sure much more could be done??

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I think that's a pretty accurate assessment of the situation, I think it was carelessness on their part with maybe a touch of no fucks given but that's me, I'm very aware of what's behind whatever I'm shooting at and I'm always looking for a good backstop, it's the minimum requirement before pulling the trigger imo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zedrex

I think that's a pretty accurate assessment of the situation, I think it was carelessness on their part with maybe a touch of no fucks given but that's me, I'm very aware of what's behind whatever I'm shooting at and I'm always looking for a good backstop, it's the minimum requirement before pulling the trigger imo

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My apologies. I reread your post and you did not mention barricade. I interpreted that when you suggested defending yourself.
What would I do in your situation?
I sure as hell wouldn't be blabbing on the Internet about anyone firing shots at me.
I wouldn't be going on about my neighbour being a fwit either, even if he was.
I still think that turning your lights on and making it known you were/are there has desolved the issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

My apologies. I reread your post and you did not mention barricade. I interpreted that when you suggested defending yourself.
What would I do in your situation?
I sure as hell wouldn't be blabbing on the Internet about anyone firing shots at me.
I wouldn't be going on about my neighbour being a fwit either, even if he was.
I still think that turning your lights on and making it known you were/are there has desolved the issue.

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Everyone handles things differently

I'd not care about "blabbing" etc and I'd not call police under most circumstances
Personally I'd sneak up on them and scare the everloving shit out of them but like I said, everyone handles things differently

Put up a great big floodlight in their direction

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Originally Posted by 308

Everyone handles things differently

I'd not care about "blabbing" etc and I'd not call police under most circumstances
Personally I'd sneak up on them and scare the everloving shit out of them but like I said, everyone handles things differently

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That did occur to me BUT, that would have involved sneaking through the bush and possibly being mistaken for a viable target......although some people might indeed say that I am lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zedrex

So this story starts end of last month....
Twas the night before Friday when all through the house not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse....
Except me, it was just after 1:00am and I was awake reading...when I heard a rifle shot, close, too close, close enough to be on my property, I jumped into me ruggers and popped out the back door for a listen....a few seconds later a ricochet went tumbling past me, the gap between me and the projectile was around 8-10 metres, this was quickly followed by another round hitting a tree, down below me. It sounded like a .22 but I wasn't willing to find out the hard way!

At this point I had two options, stick my head over the bank and interrogate the idiot below...or retreat and call for back up, the latter seemed like the safer option with less chance of me being mistaken for a possum.
It was at this point that I switched on the security flood and heard a couple of male voices in brief discussion, followed by dead silence.

Calling the cops, I was interrogated for just over 19 minutes, including if I was a FAL holder and how many guns were in my possession (I fail to see how this was relevant as my rifles were where they were supposed to be, in the safe)
I was told that someone would be attending but they couldn't say how quickly, fair enough, we live out in the wop wops.

Around 4:30AM I called 105 to see what was happening and was told no one would be attending until later in the day!
I got a call around 9:30AM by one of the local cops when I was 45 minutes away from home, so I called them when I was home and they were there in 10 minutes.
Talks were had and I was told that "we get this all the time, HQ won't action a local patrol and if we'd have known we'd have attended as we know that's not normal for your patch, we never come up here as it's so quiet"
They promised to follow up with the neighbour and I got a follow up call on the Sunday.
My fuckwit neighbour had been visited, denied knowledge of everything and were reminded of their responsibilities as a FAL holder, including NOT discharging their firearm on their property AT ALL as they have NO safe backstop seeing as they live on a deadflat section surrounded by lifestyle blocks and the only contour is 100m inside my boundary. It was offered that they were happy to trespass him and I've a mind to do that(and sew that part of my property with trail cams so if he so much as puts a pinky over the boundary, he's in breach of trespass and off to jail you go) I can't prove that it was him but you'd need pretty big balls to wander through his section to shoot possums in the trees on my property less than 60 metres from his house, so the probability weighs heavily in that direction.

My point is this, at what stage will the cops respond? After someone's been shot? As I said to the local cop, this experience has shown me that we're far from help and in a worst case scenario where I'm confronted by someone on my property waving a firearm around, help is too far away and this ain't Texas - where you are allowed, if someone rocks up at your home with a gun (or without a gun and tries to steal something) you're allowed to shoot them. So I feel my only resource should an intruder with a gun showup on my property, is to call the cops and then prepare to defend myself.

It's not ever a situation I really thought I would find myself in, with all the rah rah around the overhaul of the Firearms Act, should that include a definite process for police to adhere to for ANY incident involving firearms....and should that include powers to enter and check firearms on the premises without a warrant....being that a "crime" has just been committed?

I look forward to your thoughts and any suggestions you might have to get the police to respond with urgency in the future.
I have made an OIA request to police in preparation for a complaint to IPCA.....what good that will do I don't know but....I'm told it's the only way things will change

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Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6!