Thread: Article

Shotgun Life - Expert Dog Trainer Robert Milner Says Heck No to Shock Collars[]

Bloody brilliant!! Thanks for that Dougie, new respect for Bob!

Fully did not expect that reaction lol. Anyway, cool article.

Yet they use them for kiwi training

Originally Posted by Twoshotkill

Yet they use them for kiwi training

Yep which is why there are so many disputes about banning them in NZ, when the DOC guys use them for avian aversion. And places like Animates suggest them for bark collars as a first option... *sigh*

I was going to get one for our toy poodle not much of a gun dog but points well, thought it would be better than alkathene and cleaner to use. May have to change my way of thinking after reading that!

Originally Posted by Maca49

I was going to get one for our toy poodle not much of a gun dog but points well, thought it would be better than alkathene and cleaner to use. May have to change my way of thinking after reading that!

You should, neither method you are thinking of are decent dog training methods. I train working dogs and the day you do your bun and need to hurt the dog you've fucked it up. There are better wyas, most are simple, dogs are simple, just communicate.. most people kick their dogs when they don;t know what else to do... learn what to do.

Originally Posted by Twoshotkill

Yet they use them for kiwi training

You say "THEY" like you think "THEY" might know what they're doing.. kiwi aversion training doesn;t work, doesn;t achieve anything except make a bunch of tree huggers feel they have done something and if you think the aversion training has done anything then it's delusional... how many Kiwis did your dog kill before the training? How many Kiwis have you heard of your mates dogs killing? How many Kiwis have we saved... just another bullshit PS problem, which doesn;t exist which is "fixed" by a cure that doesn;t work... but the results say.....

Jesus wept.

I understand the "reinforce positive behavior" side, but what is the way to deal with negative behavior, like barking for instance. You can't go and click when the dog isn't barking, would just confuse them...

Originally Posted by Ruff

You should, neither method you are thinking of are decent dog training methods. I train working dogs and the day you do your bun and need to hurt the dog you've fucked it up. There are better wyas, most are simple, dogs are simple, just communicate.. most people kick their dogs when they don;t know what else to do... learn what to do.

If I touched the little dog I'd be the one with the collar.got it under good voice control just lucky they're so bloody intelligent

They are not the wireless equivilent of a rolled up news paper.

I have 2 we use for our dogs but the Zap part has plastic knobs fitted in place of the zappers. We use em to call the dogs back as they can emit a beep which the dogs know means come back to us. Also means we can find them in the dark out walking in the winter, (we never ever walk them in town, ever) Saves shouting as our lot like to roam when we are out walking and they have 1 mile range.
Just another tool
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Let the stoning commence

Originally Posted by ebf

I understand the "reinforce positive behavior" side, but what is the way to deal with negative behavior, like barking for instance. You can't go and click when the dog isn't barking, would just confuse them...

Positive reinforcement training does not work... at all for precisely the reason you have pointed out... the principle may get some people excited but let's be realistic... if the IRD started a program of sending thank you notes to people who pay their taxes and ignoring those that don't, then how many of us would do as expected??? Virtually none... same with dogs.

Dogs need to respect a consequence for poor behavior, but it does not need to be an electric shock or an ass kicking... smart trainers know there are far more effective ways of correction, that do not require electrifying a dog... electricity, even in low forms has a profound psychological effect on canines.... arse kickings rarely achieve anything with any dog... sound handling does. Praise for correct actions, condemnations for non requested actions and the ability to communicate with a dog in it's language... body language... is all that is need... no electricity, no hidings, no treats, no bullshit, good old fashioned stockmanship... to many are too impatient, to full of shit to understand that when you can TRULY communicate with a dog, all training becomes a joy.... I try to explain it, very few get it... but the few that do... i watch them and their dogs with pride... meanwhile I watch these treat training, positive reinforcement, hiding givers light up the dog brigade and shake my head, feel sorry for their dog and despair at the poor crap performance they get from their dog and the disdain I can clearly see in their dogs eyes. I enjoy the moments when my dogs look to me with trust and look me in the eye with respect and zero fear, not to piss all over me, but to ask in their way.... "What do want next Boss"?

Originally Posted by Maca49

If I touched the little dog I'd be the one with the collar.got it under good voice control just lucky they're so bloody intelligent

So how bloody intelligent are you giving a DOG for being????

Originally Posted by Ruff

So how bloody intelligent are you giving a DOG for being????

Very intelligent but to me a dog is a dog not a human and needs to know who is the boss, once they understand that you have control. Works for me anyway without violence.

Originally Posted by mikee

They are not the wireless equivilent of a rolled up news paper.

I have 2 we use for our dogs but the Zap part has plastic knobs fitted in place of the zappers. We use em to call the dogs back as they can emit a beep which the dogs know means come back to us. Also means we can find them in the dark out walking in the winter, (we never ever walk them in town, ever) Saves shouting as our lot like to roam when we are out walking and they have 1 mile range.
Just another tool
See here

like This

Attachment 6445


Let the stoning commence

Your poor dogs, imagine if you spent some time learning to communicate with them....???? No stoning is required, but maybe you should have some empathy and care for your dogs, of course if you don;t give a shit about them then your current course is perfect.

Shouting at dogs to get them back... that will never work, if they leave their "pack" they only return when they don;t know where it is... keep shouting, they know where you are and keep doing what they're doing... if you think they think like us, you have missed the basic fundamental of dog ownership... understanding you have a dog, not a four legged furry person... of course an easy solution for you is the collar... but that leaves you dog where?

I grew up learning to train animals... they are animals, not people, you have to learn to communicate on their terms because they are not smart enough to learn to communicate on ours... when that doesn;t work for you, when you don;t have the inclination to be bothered to learn how to communicate you can always light them up... Doesn;t make you smart, makes you an (*) with a dog that shares my opinion... perhaps you could start to work on the dogs level which is realistic, rather than expecting a dog to work on yours... just saying, end of the day, I'll bet I have better behaved dogs than you, which are happier than yours and have never seen one of your shortcut devices. But hell to eacxh their own, if ignorance is bliss... be ever blissful.