Thread: Bracco Italiano

Originally Posted by mikee

Not too mention be allergy free

Kick ya dogs outside to live and you may just fix that issue bro.

kawhia, are you referring to the TAN and REEP ... Tests d'Aptitudes Naturelles and the Rapport en Eau Profonde (water test) which is for dogs up to two years old (I do not know the German translation for these tests)... dogs here can be awarded a QC over two years of age ... I do not believe we can make real comparisons between these tests with any great certainty ...

Originally Posted by Ruff

If the same policy was adopted heree our true gundog breeds would be screwed.

Why is that?

Originally Posted by kawhia

Kick ya dogs outside to live and you may just fix that issue bro.

The issues is outside, we have i nailed down to pollen , pine pollen in particular. We have rather a lot of it and it coats almost everything. Now their skin has healed up after stopping the scratching things are better and improving.

Originally Posted by EeeBees

kawhia, are you referring to the TAN and REEP ... Tests d'Aptitudes Naturelles and the Rapport en Eau Profonde (water test) which is for dogs up to two years old (I do not know the German translation for these tests)... dogs here can be awarded a QC over two years of age ... I do not believe we can make real comparisons between these tests with any great certainty ...

That is the French test, German prufungs are under the jghv which like the French system all comes under the FCI and all state a test/trial requirement... I think we should make real comparisons with our own dogs, I think that void is where the nzvhdta is suppose to sit.
At the very least a breed relevant QC under the pointer setter club would be a good start.

Originally Posted by EeeBees

I love the European system where there is no prejudice of a working dog being in the ring ... he has to get an Excellent rating in the show ring to gain his Trialler status ... no matter how brilliant he is in the field ... which keeps the conformation, the allure both correct for the breed.

No breed has ever been improved in any way, conformation or otherwise, by being in a NZ show ring. The show ring has been, unarguably, to the detriment of any breed that had the stupidity to walk into it.

Originally Posted by mikee

The issues is outside, we have i nailed down to pollen , pine pollen in particular. We have rather a lot of it and it coats almost everything. Now their skin has healed up after stopping the scratching things are better and improving.

These things are usually genetic issues. Until today i have never heard of a dog having any reaction to pollen.

Originally Posted by EeeBees

Why is that?

Put as simply as I can. Showing tests for nothing. The judges are often devoid of knowledge of the breed so instead rely on a written breed standard which can be "interpreted", if it is "interpreted" by someone who has no knowledge of the use of the dog and the expectations of it, it quickly becomes scewed, but they still judge a "winner". Other breeders, who also do not hunt, look to what made a judge make a decision and breed for that quality, it has nothing to do with hunting, nothing to do with dog purpose, it only has to do with how a fat woman interpreted a written description of a dog. OK saying a "Fat woman" was wrong, it is also likely to be a very cute gay little man. NOTHING that happens in the show ring has any possible positive outcome for a working dog.. none, never, zilch and anyone who claims it does is delusional and full of shit and playing games with dogs. Some of us have more respect for our chosen breeds and their purpose and how to ensure they do not go backwards as to subject to them to this crap. It is why when I encounter ANYONE who tries to show an actual outcome from showing a dog I get pissed off and know I am dealing with one of several things. 1. people who know the game is bullshit but their ego denies the facts and just take the ribbons. 2. People who are not bright enough to work out what they have been told about shows is not real. 3. Complete Idiots.

No dog has EVER been improved by a breed standard or show ring. We do not judge the Melbourne Cup by having the horses parade in the birdcage and have an obese person pick the prettiest... there is a requirement of performance, and sometimes the ugliest bastard wins because it is the best.

This is a gundog forum, that makes it diametrically opposed to ANYTHING to do with show dogs. Mentioning show dogs in here is like mentioning porch chop recipes in a synagogue!

No Gundog, in fact NO DOG, ever had it's confirmation improved as a result of showing... ever and I hereby publicly challenge you to show one single instance.

Originally Posted by Ruff

This is a gundog forum, that makes it diametrically opposed to ANYTHING to do with show dogs. Mentioning show dogs in here is like mentioning porch chop recipes in a synagogue!

The revised breed standards of the NZKC, taken from the UK, are indeed bereft in construction unlike the previous breed standards ... the only way to make any sense of a breed standard is to have the one from which the country of origin abides to ...

If anyone breeding purebred dogs cannot at least skim through a breed standard from the country of origin then to my mind they are the very ones to wreck a breed ... and if you cannot get a dog that is at least correct to its breed standard (considering the cost of a pup) it is simply not good enough ... this is my opinion and I am sticking to it ...!!

Originally Posted by EeeBees

The revised breed standards of the NZKC, taken from the UK, are indeed bereft in construction unlike the previous breed standards ... the only way to make any sense of a breed standard is to have the one from which the country of origin abides to ...

If anyone breeding purebred dogs cannot at least skim through a breed standard from the country of origin then to my mind they are the very ones to wreck a breed ... and if you cannot get a dog that is at least correct to its breed standard (considering the cost of a pup) it is simply not good enough ... this is my opinion and I am sticking to it ...!!

You see, you still completely miss that it is FUNDEMENTAL purpose that has to be judged, not whether it's back is perfectly straight. No form of performance will ever be judged in a show ring and so there is no benchmark to gauge a show dogs potential to work and no inclusion in any breeding program to improve working traits, unless it trials at the highest standard and in most instances in NZ our trials are not that high of standard anyway, the pigeon trials especially have slowly been changed to suits specific dogs... so guess what people are breeding, whether they are the best gundogs or not.

This is where i am a little different from most dog nutters. My driving force, what I am about, is good working dogs working. I don;t care about bloody tweed, beauty pageants for dogs, and as time goes by I increasingly have little time for trials which are beginning to test trial dogs and NOT hunting dogs.

The first most important step in diminishing the integrity of a breed and the purpose it was designed for is to apply a breed standard to the animal. I can provide dozens, or more, exa,ple of everything from [pigeons, cattle. roosters, rabbits, goats, dogs cats who have had the initial integrity 100% compromised due to someone trying to judge them against a standard. The standard is, or should be.... WORK. I want a hunting dog, not a bloody show pony. But I respect your right to play your own game with your french pointers, speak to them in french, champion their show titles and produce bugger all for a hunter that just wants a bloody good dog.

You got me a bit wrong there, Ruff ... the show world is simply the show world, warts and gazeboes ... it is a travesty that probably ninety + percent of gundogs in the ring will never ever know what their role is ... let me make it clear to you, I sell puppies ONLY TO HUNTERS ... and I will only ever sell them to hunters ... I follow the French breed standard and their WORKING STANDARD ... why? because the integrity of lineage must be maintained; to me it is RESPECT for the great minds behind the dogs ...

And as we are domiciled in a country so remote from the source of our breeds, no compromise can be taken ...

You crack me up, for sure ... if I want to speak to a dog in the language of his first commands, I will ...

I've always secretly fancied a sequin jacket

Originally Posted by Pointer

I've always secretly fancied a sequin jacket

Well that deteriorated fast

Sorry Mikee. I just miss the old show vs. work chestnut

Originally Posted by Ruff

These things are usually genetic issues. Until today i have never heard of a dog having any reaction to pollen.

Mortensen mentions it in his book as the single biggest health issue he faced with his setters.