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Thread: Hunting Lines 101

  1. #1
    GSP Mad Munsey's Avatar
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    Hunting Lines 101

    As a Rule . What should one look for when looking at papers ?. Ie all the abbreviated GFTC etc . Other country abbreviations what to look for ? . And what should be avoided ?
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  2. #2
    Member stug's Avatar
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    I would be wary of a dog with lots of CH in their pedigree. That means show champion. FTCH is field trial champion, which for pointers will be a pigeon trial. In the North Island they are running more live game trials, but I don't know if there is a different abbreviation.
    Look for inbreeding/line breeding ie the same dog/bitch appearing a number of times.
    Some imported blood would be good.
    I would talk to the breeder and ask for the names of other people who have bought their dogs for hunting and talk to them.
    But I have seen litter mates run at a Versatile dog trial and the difference between them was huge. One had had lots of work done with them, and the other had not much. Was pretty obvious which one was which.
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  3. #3
    Gold member Pointer's Avatar
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    Look at the dog first, or in the case of a mating look at the parents and grandparents, because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Essentially that's what you'll be getting.

    Then look at pedigree. Instead of going back through it looking for titles (which can be next to useless) or famous ancestors, read the pedigree forward. Look at what each dog produced. If you are seeing a proven performer who produced good performing stock a few times in a 5 generation pedigree that's a good start.

    There are four titles for working gun dogs in NZ. That's field trial champion (FTCH), grand field trial champion, (GFTCH) field champion, (FCH) and grand field champion (GFCH). Field Champion is on live game, and in the pointing breeds the only one of interest. (that'll stir the pot with the pigeon crowd) Live game trials are only available to the pointing breeds and spaniels at present.

    Remember, all those names on paper are next to useless without seeing them yourself, or hearing the opinion of someone you trust about them. Until then it's just paper which is easily falsified. My advice would be to go see as many dogs of your chosen breed as you can and get a picture of the dogs you want to breed and own and stick to it.
    Last edited by Pointer; 09-03-2016 at 10:34 AM.
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  4. #4
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    An interesting subject that I know zero about! Does anyone have some papers they could post up so we know what is being talked about?

    Cheers,

    Andrew
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  5. #5
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    as a general rule labs, spaniels and pointer setters from working lines should have no CH titles in the pedigree, the only exception being some dual trialling lines of labrador kennels.
    for versatiles from NZKC stock you would be hard to find anything without a CH within 3 generations, the min i would be looking for is a QC at the end of the pedigree name.
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  6. #6
    Member Ruff's Avatar
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    Generally if the mating has been done before have a look at siblings... it is even more useful to see what the mating has already produced, where possible, than just to look at parents.

    Paper occasionally can be an indicator of good blood but in most instances I use pedigrees to identify lines I would personally avoid. I wont pick a dog on pedigree automatically, but I will dismiss one. The dogs themselves are always the best indicator and titles in themselves can be very misleading. The late Jim Clarke, widely regarded as the leading Springer breeder in NZ for a number of years, very rarely used titled dogs as his stud dogs... He did but more often used dogs in which he could see huge potential but may not have been handled to their best potential.

    Basically there is no really simple way to just start reading pedigrees I would suggest getting hold of someone with experience and start to go over a few pedigrees and from there start to match up what you have seen in dogs and then how that equates to their pedigree... There's no ultra fast way, but it comes together fairly quickly... a bit like a jigsaw, get the first few pieces of the puzzle and things start to fall into place.

    Here's the pedigree of the litter I bred recently.
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  7. #7
    Member Petros_mk's Avatar
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    Pointer knocked it on the heard really. Do the forward-looking assessment. See as many dogs as available, get an understanding how the lineage performed under different handlers and don't assess the quality of the bloodline based on 1 dog amazing dog.

    1 outstanding dog could mean a phenomenal handler, 6 outstanding dogs under different handler give me more confidence the dogs themselves are good. Its a case by case situation.

    Depending on whether you are in a rush to get a dog - from a long term breeding perspective I have a strong believe that it may be better to pick a strong bitch on which you have done your complete research and as a reassurance wait for her second litter to get a dog if you are satisfied with the product of her first lot.

    There are number of dogs/bitches in history that have bred phenomenal progeny but the sire/damn have not been used in the field or of championship quality. We also see that up here with racing pigeons as well, some horrible flying birds produce some phenomenal long distance racers. Looking at the championship titles can skew your decision in situations like these, meaning you can miss out on a quality dog just because its parent's didn't have the FCH in-front of a name.

    That's not to say the titles mean nothing.

  8. #8
    Gold member Pointer's Avatar
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    I'll go out on a limb here and say that in pointing dog trials in NZ and possibly spaniels too the only titles that matter are on live game (FCH/GFCH). All FTCH tells me is that it can be handled. All QC tells me is that it pointed a pigeon in a box, once
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  9. #9
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    and for many of the versatile breeds thats a fucken achievement in itself.

 

 

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