Vizsla pup - registered vs not

hey all,

I'm looking to adopt a vizsla pup to train as a deer dog / family pet.

I have registered my interest with a couple of breeders - likely quite a wait.

looking around FB / TM a couple of litters have popped up - non breeders, non registered dogs.

Whats the thoughts on registered dogs from breeders vs non registered litters? My concern is that with less common breeds it would be pretty easy for people to accidentally inbreed pups - breeders send dogs from the same litter all over the country etc etc

I want to avoid health issues and shorter life span - not overly worried about the slightly higher price although the wait for a pup is much longer. If you have registered parents, and you do breed them down the line you also have more valuable pups...

I would suggest looking for a dog from a breeder of working or field dogs as opposed to "show" lines if possible. See if you can talk to some field trials guys who run them. They will know who has what.

Waiting is not necessarilly a bad thing for the right opportunity, our latest pup came when we weren't really ready but was too good an opportunity to pass up.

As far as price goes well here in Nelson you pay 1900 bucks for what I would term an "SPCA Special" (cavadoodle, labradoodle or spoodle) all from a (in this case the same) "breeder" so I guess price is relative, I have no idea what Vizlas go for not being a Vizsla bloke
Personally the dog should cost the same papers or not.
a quick look shows a few breeders have registered litters
https://www.dogsnz.org.nz/breeders/l...ian-vizsla/306

Is it your first dog??

I would not worry personally about registered dogs, but that's just me.
I brought my Vizsla from purebred Vizsla parents and she has been great. I could have brought it with papers for a few hundred dollars extra, but I passed. I was not wanting to breed pups so it was not important. Why pay the extra dollars for a piece of paper if you want the animal as a hunting dog and companion? As it turned out we did breed her with a friend of mines pure bred Vizsla who is a great hunter. Now all her pups sold with no hassles and I'm sure will be great dogs. A piece of paper will not make them any better hunters or companions. She helped me get this 8 pt SIka last month and the papers would not have made any difference....
Attachment 143152:)

Here's one of @Kudu pups. Not to ready to hunt yet but showing good potential.
Attachment 143156

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Originally Posted by muzza

back in the day when we bred Labradors , the true cost of the NZKC papers for your mutt was $10. I couldnt - and still cant - see how breeders can charge hundreds of dollars for "papers" that are only worth $10 in the real world. It was 20 years ago but the principle is unchanged

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This is my point we bred Huskies until we moved to Nelson. Our dogs all went with papers and no endorsements (if they were not good enough to breed from they were not good enough to sell) I think the whole papers / no papers thing is a scam perpetuated by some breeders.

Like here one of the local designer dog breeders charges $1900 bucks for a puppy and reserves the right to use it for breeding before its 3...................................whose dog is it ffs!!

I think the one thing you get from a breeder who has been doing it a while (more so it seems in the working side of breeds) is a better idea of what you are likely to get as an end result.
None of this is too say a small breeder should be ignored or written off, their dogs may be just as good or better but it may be slightly more of a lottery.

To answer your question though I would not be in any hurry.

Do your due diligence on any non-papers type breeders. Check them out thoroughly on TM and FB etc.

Two mates (and myself!) have been caught out by “puppy farm” breeders with no moral qualms about their breeding damme.

This is across all breeds - I’m talking GSP, German Shepherd and Curly Coat Retriever, so it’s reasonable to me you’re wary re Vizsla also.

Make sure your pup is from proven working lines and that the breeders actually know what a good hunting dog is. A good hunting dog is many things, Make sure you know what you want too and then look at the parents for those traits. If they dont have them then you are riding the razors edge. I have never needed papers. Papers dont guarantee a good hunting line. There are a lot of people breeding vislas and other pure breds who dont know what that is. Beware!

I talk to a couple of Vizsla breeder's when i was considering getting one. They said the gene pool in NZ was only very small, thats going back about 4years. One even said a bit of cross breeding had already started. I looked at getting a papered dog and i didn't agree with the endorsements and after a bit of homework decided the breed wasn't for me.

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Originally Posted by bigbear

I talk to a couple of Vizsla breeder's when i was considering getting one. They said the gene pool in NZ was only very small, thats going back about 4years. One even said a bit of cross breeding had already started. I looked at getting a papered dog and i didn't agree with the endorsements and after a bit of homework decided the breed wasn't for me.

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I'm currently in touch with two breeders - one of whom is importing semen from the states for her bitches.
thanks for the feedback thus far - yes the papers mean nothing in terms of hunting ability etc - for me the papers are purely for the dogs health to ensure they are not inbred. I have heard some pretty bad stories of breeding practices from "puppy farms" etc where dogs are birthing twice in a year, older dogs are still being bred, excessive litters from the same parents meaning that their genes are wide spread almost quarantining inbreeding to occur.

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Originally Posted by Bobba

Here's one of @Kudu pups. Not to ready to hunt yet but showing good potential.
Attachment 143156

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Geez he's getting big!!!

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Originally Posted by Shadowsol

I'm currently in touch with two breeders - one of whom is importing semen from the states for her bitches.
thanks for the feedback thus far - yes the papers mean nothing in terms of hunting ability etc - for me the papers are purely for the dogs health to ensure they are not inbred. I have heard some pretty bad stories of breeding practices from "puppy farms" etc where dogs are birthing twice in a year, older dogs are still being bred, excessive litters from the same parents meaning that their genes are wide spread almost quarantining inbreeding to occur.

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papers will tell you if you are looking at working lines or non working lines, easy to say working lines looking a pictures of dead shit but how much of that is hunter input and not genetics, no papers not real proof of what you are actually buying , registered breeders abide by rules and must have health testing prior to breeding as well as the amount of litters the bitch can have in her lifetime and an age limit.

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Originally Posted by kawhia

papers will tell you if you are looking at working lines or non working lines, easy to say working lines looking a pictures of dead shit but how much of that is hunter input and not genetics, no papers not real proof of what you are actually buying , registered breeders abide by rules and must have health testing prior to breeding as well as the amount of litters the bitch can have in her lifetime and an age limit.

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Yeah thanks, I have decided to wait for a registered breeder - for these reasons.

With breeding any stock - dogs included having good sound high performing near relatives and back ancestry is the most important thing. Whilst an outstanding individual can sometimes arise from mediocre parents, outstanding parents are far more likely to produce outstanding offspring. Ritchy McCaw being more likely to sire allblacks than Danny Devito
What this means as far as a Vizsla pup is that 'pedigree' stock is far less important than outstanding stock.
Vizsla's are not without their faults as a pure breed - they feel the cold badly, they are bouncy neurotic patting addicts, bitches esp. are soft and a bit timid. They are not naturally 'steady'
I have never laid eyes on one but from what I have read, I think that the Wire hair Vizsla would be better, the breed being originally formed through a cross of the smooth coated Hungarian Vizsla with the German Wirehaired pointer.

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Originally Posted by kawhia

papers will tell you if you are looking at working lines or non working lines, easy to say working lines looking a pictures of dead shit but how much of that is hunter input and not genetics, no papers not real proof of what you are actually buying , registered breeders abide by rules and must have health testing prior to breeding as well as the amount of litters the bitch can have in her lifetime and an age limit.

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And as you may know some of these registered breeders are still banging out litters in between and these litters they don't register.

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Originally Posted by kawhia

papers will tell you if you are looking at working lines or non working lines, easy to say working lines looking a pictures of dead shit but how much of that is hunter input and not genetics, no papers not real proof of what you are actually buying , registered breeders abide by rules and must have health testing prior to breeding as well as the amount of litters the bitch can have in her lifetime and an age limit.

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True Mr kawhia, photo's of "Dead Shit" does not prove working lines. Just like a picture of anyone in a race car does not mean they are a good driver. I didn't have ANY photos of the parents of my girl with "Dead Shit", but got her anyway and with a bit of patience, love and training she has turned into a great companion and hunting dog and I couldn't be happier. So that was my point, while papers might be nice they are not the make or break of an animal. The photo was there just because I was happy to get an 8 pt Sika the other day, not to prove anything.

This a really good thread and goes beyond the visla question. There are so many aspects of what makes a good dog and it also comes down to the ability of the handler and what they are actually happy with. Everyone has different expectations.

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Originally Posted by Hiawatha

This a really good thread and goes beyond the visla question. There are so many aspects of what makes a good dog and it also comes down to the ability of the handler and what they are actually happy with. Everyone has different expectations.

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Yes it is and I hope it does not degenerate like most "dog threads"!
We have now 3 pointers. First 2 from 100% "Show"blood and and 11 years old and youngest(new) at 8 months from 100% working blood.
I would have to say as dogs they are as different as chalk and cheese. All 3 do the pointer thing (the inbred bird finding) but the pup so far is proving a better all round dog at a far younger age. Our older 2 have always had issues with allergies and other health issues and neither could do a day in the field now. The pup is also a finer built dog and much more nimble/lighter on her feet. After all day in the scrub there are no detectable allergies so far. All our pointers have come with an inbult ON/OFF switch it seems and can go from calm house dog to hunting and back as required. I honestly cannot see me having any other breed in the future and for me the Pointer does every thing I want.

I think we all want different things from our dogs and the abilities of the owners also come into it a lot. Not to mention the practical field work as some of us struggle to get much time in the field.

I looked at Vizsla's initially but after speaking with breeders at length decided a "velcro"dog was not quite the right fit for me (us). We wanted dogs which would be OK in the house, could go everywhere with us, be good company and capable in the field rather than the dog everyone avoids. We wanted to try and avoid the separation issues some vizslas owner seem to report

Dogs lives are painfully short to I think a dog from a proven line/ability gives an owner the best chance to get the dog they want / hope for and less chance of ending up with what you don't. Generally you can see the parents, grandparents etc and also there is a good chance you can see these dogs at work in the field assuming thats what you want your new mate for.

That is not too say you should discount other types of breeder (excluding the puppy mills) as often they breed their dogs which the help/advice of the original breeder. Its just harder to try and predict what you might see in the pups.

Of course I could be completely wrong as I often am but this is a good thread

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Originally Posted by Kudu

True Mr kawhia, photo's of "Dead Shit" does not prove working lines. Just like a picture of anyone in a race car does not mean they are a good driver. I didn't have ANY photos of the parents of my girl with "Dead Shit", but got her anyway and with a bit of patience, love and training she has turned into a great companion and hunting dog and I couldn't be happier. So that was my point, while papers might be nice they are not the make or break of an animal. The photo was there just because I was happy to get an 8 pt Sika the other day, not to prove anything.

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it wasn't directed at you, my post was directed at the guy who started the thread...but leaving the papered track has happened alot with most breeds the vizsla being one of them, the limited bloodlines get stretched even further into the unknown.

most dogs will hunt regardless of breed/breeding etc some will just be better at it than others. it depends to what level you want to hunt/what you want your dog to do and how much time you want to put into your dog as to how important hunting lines/breeding will be. i have had a viszla from hunting lines which was not a great dog.

if i were you i would try and spend some time with the puppies from the litter and pick one that shows the traits that you want in your dog, there are plenty of books/information on what to look for. it is very useful to be able to see the puppies interacting with each other outside and watch what the individual pups are doing and how they interact with people. it is worth waiting for the right dog as you will be stuck with it for a long time.

Some dogs just leave great pups and some leave rubbish. If a breeder can supply names of past buyers to contact it might be possible to view sibling pups from previous litters. If they are all consistently good then a pup with the same breeding is likely going to be good too