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on another forum, the question was put up...what distance of cast do you want from your dog. My theory on it is...depends on the environ...big country, big cast; little country, little cast. Another forumite mentioned the bite of the cast being possibly more important. What are your thoughts?
+1 on the type of terrain dictating the distance of the cast, the bite really depends on your dogs nose
Without too much detail , but how do you dictate the distance of cast ie whistle and hand signal?
With all of this casting and biting shouldn't this thread be in the fishing section. Leaving now before I get growled by EeeBees for hijacking her perfectly sensible thread.
Change of direction whistleQuote:
Originally Posted by Munsey
The distance as per the terrain what UU said. Dictating it is initially by control (Whistle, hand etc etc)... and thats what I initially did. Constantly blowing my whistle which I then realized is not quite necessary.
More recently I just walk without much audible commands. If my dog is further than where I want him to be I stop and stand, when he sees me I turn and walk the other way so he follows and thus the pattern begins... It becomes quite simple once your dog gets the idea that he needs to follow. That's about pointers and setters... For spanners you'll probably need to be within fu*kable distance to keep on top of them, so a lot more control is used (i believe)...
ideally a cast with a dog using the wind and terrain as the limit and with a dog with enough natural ability to use both with a natural desire to check in and work for the handler.
the spaniel is trained to pattern within shot gun range, running a flushing breed that works any further out is a waste of time.
Principal's office for you, Rushy:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rushy
I try to use the whistle as least as possible. I think body language without voice is good in the field. where we hunt on the river, the cast can only ever be around 15 to 25 metres maximum either side so there is little advantage for whistling in my view. While the casts might be that distance the actual bite, due to the rough, can be considerably small.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros_mk
I agree, Kawhia, the connection is important to me...what is the point of hunting with a dog if you cannot work as a team.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
:disapointed:Quote:
Originally Posted by EeeBees
What you have described above is training a dog to run a pattern, the whistle blowing is necessery to train a dog to cast out to a specific distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros_mk
For interest sake , do you think a whistle can adversely affect what game birds do in the field when hunted ? (. Uplands )
I run my pointer with a bell on him so I dont think the odd peep on a whistle will affect anything.
more than one way to skin a cat bro...Quote:
Originally Posted by upnorth uplander
read Munseys question again Pete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros_mk
its pretty simple zharn....
What you said earlier "Change of direction whistle"... There is that which you can use. All I am saying is that you don't always need that.
If your dog is paying attention to you and keeps track of your movement (and they should) then they will follow you.
If they are far out where you don't want him to be just go the opposite direction and he should follow. At least Aki does for me.... Avoids whistling and yelling...
Its natural for a dog to always stay in front of you, turn your back against him he'll come in front again.
you are still describing how to train a dog to quarter
so whats the change of direction whistle for?
woukd be good to elaborate on ur method...
cast your dog off, when it has reached the desired distance you either hit it with a stop or change of direction whistle, if the dog turns and you think the cast is too short you hit it with a stop whistle and send it on again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munsey
we'll ask you for a demo when we get up north :)
I need to be refreshed on the fish retrieve too :)
as mentioned terrain dependent is what a desirable cast length will be for most . i my myself dont give a toss as long as i can see him the bigger the more exciting and less ground i need to cover--as long as the dog isnt self hunting ! ie he turns and cast back to you i think its just personal preference and how much you trust your mutt .the working partnership is a highway not a caldersack --you gotta keep workin on it if changing terrain- unless of course your dog is perfect
Munsey to answer your question, As UU said if he's too far turn him. If he is too close and therefore missing ground or habitually short casting on one side, stop him, and send him back out.
Eeebees, I want a dog that fills any space you give it. As mentioned above, if the ground treatment is relevant to terrain there is no such thing as too big
Good to see you are still alive & well el b, been quiet with out you
I will give you a demo when I get a new pointer pup. Untill your dog retrieves everything you shoot then I wouldnt comment about someone elses training method especially when that persons dog actually retrievesQuote:
Originally Posted by Petros_mk
im always gonna comment on the fish retrieve...
its been to hot to waer tweed as of late so i just shut my trap until next season where ill be bigger than TEXAS on the forum once again --where the f..ks ruffQuote:
Originally Posted by upnorth uplander
El B it is about time you organised another long range shoot out at South Head. Happy Christmas by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
I agree, Pointer. Re the dog missing ground...its an interesting one...a dog can work in a busy fashion but is he really doing the work he needs to...does prey drive come into this, I suggest it does. If a puppy is missing ground that is one thing, but an experienced dog is another...how much ground is missing ground (I guess again it is the terrain) but how much ground is too much ground? If that ground is not holding birds, or there are no birds, can and/or should the dog be remonstrated (or at least corrected) for missing ground?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
hey Rushy yep well do that next year for sure !!happy xmas to you also \Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushy
In it's desire to hunt away, perhaps. But otherwise no. Ground treatment and the ability to quarter is largely inherited and to a perhaps marginally lesser extent, trained, as per above, according to Whitney et al.Quote:
Originally Posted by EeeBees
Again as above, any ground left in a dogs beat, according to scenting conditions and terrain.Quote:
If a puppy is missing ground that is one thing, but an experienced dog is another...how much ground is missing ground (I guess again it is the terrain) but how much ground is too much ground?
In my opinion, yes. Pointing dogs are to be used when game is scarce, they should do all the ground they can and to do it in a manner that leaves nothing behind. Otherwise we may as well march it up ourselves with a spaniel...Quote:
If that ground is not holding birds, or there are no birds, can and/or should the dog be remonstrated (or at least corrected) for missing ground?
I'm assuming by terrain you guys mean cover?
How tight do the critters hold?
For the rabbits it's good if the main pack keep around that 25 metre mark, but there is always a couple out long, so be it as they get what comes their way plus pushing others back. Yes I have a few that will cast, she's not pretty but it gets done. Stop on the whistle when I want them to start working back to me.