American pit bull dog or cross

Hi, is there too much of a problem training/owning one of these for goat and pig hunting-in scrub/bush.

Obviously can't have it threatening kids-thought that was mostly covered in socialization.

Had corgi, a retriever before, and reasonable long time use of kelpie.

Liked all -Kelpie -predictably independent, may have been only 'issue'.

Covered that for me by both of us-me/dog learning to work together.

Reason for asking= no one else may want them in general population-so easier to get.

Nb this is a planning question- not allowed dog where currently residing:(

few months.

Just my 2 c worth here, and not really based on anything other than having had pure bred Staffys for many years. I thing that on the whole, there is probably too much latent aggression in the genes to be an effective hunting dog.
One taste of fresh blood and you could have all sorts of problems.

+1

Pitties don't "threaten" children...they strip them to the bone...the biggest problem with them as a hunting dog is that they rip into everything in the bush, people, other dogs, and of course the intended target, pigs and goats. In the past we have had trouble with savage dogs around our horses when out trekking and so at least one rider in the group carries the means to alleviate the situation.

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Originally Posted by Spook

Pitties don't "threaten" children...they strip them to the bone...the biggest problem with them as a hunting dog is that they rip into everything in the bush, people, other dogs, and of course the intended target, pigs and goats. In the past we have had trouble with savage dogs around our horses when out trekking and so at least one rider in the group carries the means to alleviate the situation.

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What a crock of shit.

you could train a Pitty to heel and scent, but why bother though unless you really love these dogs, the problem in NZ is the breed is probably a bit to nutty, think of the type of people that own them and what they use them for, why they breed them and what traits they are looking for. I have had pitty cross dogs that were exceptionally friendly with the kids and just big soft babies around the house.
Check out these dogs, they have just as much fight in them as some other breeds and can be used easily for deer indication ( apparently )
New Zealand Thai Ridgeback Dog Breeders - BlueStone Kennels » Thai Ridgeback X Hunting Dogs - BlueStone Kennels

Nail on the head @oneshot traits commonly backyard bred are big n angry. Dominant testosterone-full dogs n bitches being crossed. I had a UK staff that was great but never again (too much) like a Foxy on roids. Thought they passed a law about complusary desexing or something a few years back, but have seen one registered as a "ridgeback cross".

Ive got a pitty, and she is a marshmellow. Would make a crap pig dog, she's way to meek. Fucking great family dog though. I've also got another rescue who was an unwanted pig dog pup (or so I was told), staffy whippet x. He's a bit of handfull in the city as hes pretty chase orientated, managed to focus the chase onto a ball though.

Pure PBT's are a bit stocky and often to slow. Also lots of the bull breeds arn't that flash nose wise, and you have to spend more time getting em interested in tracking smells.

A decent staffy x lab or somthing could make a good pig dog, given the right encouragement. If you have a mate who has a pack to run em with, they learn fast from other dogs.

My mate who I used to go out with occasionally (not really my cup of tea) runs PBT whippet crosses. Ugly as sin but pretty effective

OK, ta, what led me to that thinking was-

fear-based media=usually part truth with agenda, and I acknowledge the damage they cause, and was the dog of choice for 'nuisance' people. Hence partly believable.

and something I read somewhere is they were originally bred for bailing pigs.

and no one else wants them-but seems like plenty free dogs at different times available.

If you could train a good Pitty or Staffy as a holder on pigs I don't think they could be bettered. Unfortunately as others have said, there is a lot of bad blood lines out there these days, so choosing the right animal would be hard.
They were definitely not originally bred for bailing anything mate.

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Originally Posted by Nick-D

. I've also got another rescue who was an unwanted pig dog pup (or so I was told), staffy whippet x.

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sorry about the hijack ...but what does he look like..? .....I picked up a rescue pup and im thinking that's what she is.......

Like a leaner staffy with ears further back. Kinda looks like a dingo now I think of it. haha. Being a pig pup hell have a few other things in him, 'staffy' is a pretty generalised term these days.

I know one thing for sure. he can bloody shift.

Attachment 31729

Plus bonus flyin pitbull :ORLY:
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Autistic girl has a Pitbull for her helper dog, they cant be all that bad then.

Santa turns away autistic girl over her helper dog | Stuff.co.nz

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Originally Posted by Pengy

If you could train a good Pitty or Staffy as a holder on pigs I don't think they could be bettered. Unfortunately as others have said, there is a lot of bad blood lines out there these days, so choosing the right animal would be hard.
They were definitely not originally bred for bailing anything mate.

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I have had pure labs that have been outstanding holders, ( do or die attitude ) on par with bully's without a doubt.

And what breed of dog has been responsible for children and old people being torn apart and killed or maimed in the last few years? the only good pitbull is a dead one.

Statisically,the greatest number of bites delivered is by the Golden Retreiver( the most owned dog in the western world), but generally a Retreiver (or Lab) will mostly only give a bite in response to provication ( like 4 yr old sticks finger in eye) and it stops there - man has genetically engineered those things to be a agressive psycho rip it apart killing machine and now all the fuckwits have them. Pitbulls are the lastest tough sticker for mostly insecure wannabe "hardman" types. I see a pitbull? I want to get my rifle.

A good owner that makes an effort to train and teach his pitbull to be a proper dog may have success and have a dog that licks his kids and appears to be a cuddly softy, but what is that sound in the backround? tick tick tick.........

I partly agree with you, probably more than partly. they are a very dangerous dog as a general rule, its unfortunate that mostly the type of people that own them are shitheads, (gangsters, tough guy pretend gangstas ) and in such a small country you end up with really bad blood lines as these "mostly" shitheads who own them for tough wannabe dogs tend to breed the crazy dogs with the crazy bitches, so you get crazy pups with bad attitudes.

I hear that tick tick tick with any dog when there are little ones around.

I also have a pit bull staff cross. She's a sweetie. But I trust her no less or more than my other dogs as far as kids go. It's common sense really.

I've met far too many maladjusted dogs due to maladjusted owners

Other halfs nephew has two pitbulls they were bought up around kids and if you walk into the back yard with them be prepared to be licked to death and have them bring sticks and balls to you to throw for them as far as I am concerned you bring up a pit bull properly let it socialize with other dogs and people and don't mistreat it they will not be aggressive. Kick the dog around and treat it like shit then you have the devil on your hands
Pit bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by hunter308;320239...............Kick the dog around and treat it like shit then you have the devil on your hands
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull"

Pit bull - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

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Sounds a bit like bringing up children

A dog is a powerful predator, and cabable of dealing serious damage far above its weight. Whilst I would absolutely trust either of my dogs with kids, I would never leave them unattended.

The Pittbull term is loosly slung around by the media. The vast majority of these dogs involved in maulings are from poor neighboorhoods and will without a doubt be mixed breeds. If they are muscular or light nosed then they are automatically labled pitt bulls. In fact the last couple of reported attacks were mastiff crosses, not pitties at all.

So to say that a pittbull cannot be trusted hands down, and that the only good pittbull is a dead pittbull is disingenious and does not serve anyone. I would challenge you 257 to meet my pittbull then walk away with the same attitude.

A properly socialised pittbull bought up and managed by an experienced owner is no more or less dangerous than any other powerfull dog. The bitches were for a time actually known as the 'nanny' dogs and were very popular family dogs in the early years of the breed. In fact Teddy Roosevelt had 2. I personally think that the bitches make much better pets and tend to be a bit softer and easier to manage.

of course if you go and get a game bred male and throw it into a pack situation its going to try fight its way up the pile, starting with the weakest member of the pack. (kids)

they are not a breed, it is a generic type.

The term is used as a generic type, but pittbulls (American Pitt Bull Terriers) are an internationally recognised breed.

American staff is the pit bull is not.... although they are from the same stock.
for it to a breed it would need a general set of standards and a closed stud book.... size and weight wise they come from very small to almost mastiff size.
it's one of the reasons they have been so hard to get rid of in many countries.

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Originally Posted by Nick-D

The term is used as a generic type, but pittbulls (American Pitt Bull Terriers) are an internationally recognised breed.

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If you can find a qualified vet that is willing to tell you what the blood lines are for a Pitbull terrier, hang onto him/her.

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Originally Posted by kawhia

American staff is the pit bull is not.... although they are from the same stock.
for it to a breed it would need a general set of standards and a closed stud book.... size and weight wise they come from very small to almost mastiff size.
it's one of the reasons they have been so hard to get rid of in many countries.

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Absolutely man, Like most breeds they are highly variable, although many of the breed varients are not recognised. The same can be said for just about any breed of dog though.
Love amstaffs, typically are bigger dogs than most AKC recognised APBT's

AKC Breeds - Complete Breed List

nope couldn't find them, maybe the UKC register which will register anything for a fee.

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Originally Posted by kawhia

AKC Breeds - Complete Breed List

nope couldn't find them, maybe the UKC register which will register anything for a fee.

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Yeah you are right. I was under the impression that the AKC recognised them as a seperate breed, but it appears that only the UKC does.

From my understanding the bloodlines are seperate from the staffordshire bloodlines, obviously the AKC doesnt think so

with pitbulls it is the arousal threshold,there will be exceptions, but within this 'breed', this appears relatively low. mastiffs have a protective instinct coupled with alpha dog instinct, which around children,can have consequences.girls with high pitched screams can trigger predator instincts.these two types of dogs should have red flags,that plus uncontrolled breeding by halfwit owners, is probably at the root of most of the dog problems.(imbecile owners aside).

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Originally Posted by Nick-D

Yeah you are right. I was under the impression that the AKC recognised them as a seperate breed, but it appears that only the UKC does.

From my understanding the bloodlines are seperate from the staffordshire bloodlines, obviously the AKC doesnt think so

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gamebred pitbulls have a pretty long linage like it's cousin the American bulldog, they were keep pretty uniform and differents types developed in many southern states, from which I think the jeep and sorells lines came from, some of those were the first imported to nz right from the get go cross breeding to English and staffs was pretty common to fulfil the huge demand at the time.
I've met some pretty placid pitbulls both here and over seas, what I do know is some of the bad arse fighting pits I've seen were absolute marshmellows around people so go figure.

My mates Dogue De Bourdeauxs where pretty good at getting his goats in a paddock, not sure about their stamima on the hills. They cleaned up well I think we found just a hoof left once.

[QUOTE=oneshot;320051]I have had pure labs that have been outstanding holders, ( do or die attitude ) on par with bully's without a doubt.[/QUOTE

Yes it is quite an amazing transformation from family pet to lion when a lab hunts game like pigs.

I met a couple of guys from Huntly a few times out in the Urewera's who had the most successful packs of pig dogs around. The whole pack were Black Labs.

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Originally Posted by kawhia

gamebred pitbulls have a pretty long linage like it's cousin the American bulldog, they were keep pretty uniform and differents types developed in many southern states, from which I think the jeep and sorells lines came from, some of those were the first imported to nz right from the get go cross breeding to English and staffs was pretty common to fulfil the huge demand at the time.
I've met some pretty placid pitbulls both here and over seas, what I do know is some of the bad arse fighting pits I've seen were absolute marshmellows around people so go figure.

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Yeah man, from what I understand that was a behaviour they bred for, as the handlers were always in the pit with em, and it was no good having the pitties turn on the handler. Its one of the big misconceptions of pittbull behaviour