Dog training books wanted - help me train my GSP

Hi everyone,
Does anyone have any of the following books or any other books they would recommend that I could buy or borrow off them?
I have a new GSP puppy i would like to train on deer and pheasants. Needs to be a versatile dog. Ive watched the deer dog blue print and while it is good, Im of the opinion that (as all good things in life) there are many ways to train a dog, and im hoping to get more information.
I was going to buy these books of amazon but it was getting expensive, so thought id ask here first. Thanks Fam :thumbsup:


How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves, Taking Advantage of Early Condtioned Learning
by Joan Bailey


How to Have The Best Trained Gun Dog, Taking Advantage of Proven, Unique Training Methods, All Natural - No Expensive Electronics Needed
by Joan Bailey


The German Shorthaired Pointer: a Hunter's Guide
by David Mark Gowde

I was going through all that and looking at videos and such and in the end just did it myself.

It a not hard to train a dog it just takes time and discipline.

Work on obedience and when you think you've got that down pat work on it some more. Work on obedience out and about where there's lots of smells and distractions.
Their instincts tell them to hunt, it's just a matter of teaching them to listen when they don't want to and teaching yourself how to understand your dog.

It's a journey with ups and downs but I loved it.

My gsp is now not only a hunting partner that's put me on plenty of animals she's also my best mate.

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The only two bits about dog training that I am certain about, StagDown, is that you form a great connection and if you command the pup to do something, make sure it does ...

I don't rate the Joan Bailey books. They are light on the little details that make a big difference, if that makes sense.

Try and read the works of people who have trained multiple dogs to a very high standard. For pointing breeds I really rate Derry Argues' stuff, it has a sound base in psychology followed up with good old fashioned stockmanship. Although not aimed at the pointing breeds David Lissetts' DVDs on training are worth a watch, especially in the early stages as it is exactly the same fundamentals put in place before you take a pointing dog to game.

I also recommend Delmar Smiths stuff - just leave the e-collar out of it and watch the guys management and husbandry - excellent.

Then, after all that, find the original master text - Hutchinsons' "Dog breaking. The most expeditious, certain, and easy method; whether great excellence or only mediocrity be required" - this little gem was published in the 1860s and shows that nothing is new in dog training. In fact, you could read it and surmise we have in fact lost our way with animals.

Have fun and good luck

Cheers guys,

Im really looking forward to the process but also just a bit worried Ill stuff it up.
The biggest problem atm is she whines when i make her do something she doesnt want to/when im getting her food ready and also barks for about 10mins after i put her in the kennel, but then she settles down, then every hour or two she may start barking for 10mins again. Im not sure if this is something she will grow out of or if i need to shut it down now. This is my first dog so im unsure. Im not keen on shock collars so any other advice would be appreciated. (im pretty strict on kenneling and she has a nice kennel with everything she needs).

I also dont know if i should be training her to be controlled and only walk a few meters ahead (ie for deer stalking stuff) or if i should start on retrieving and bird stuff first.

Ill look into those books you mentioned @Pointer. Im reading one at the moment called "how to train your own gun dog" by Charles S.Goodall. its from 1982 so a bit old now, its good but only focus on bird stuff and i swear they must kill about 1000 pigeons to train one dog (its an american book). It doesn't seem realistic here in NZ. Are there any books/material about training a dog on deer other than the blue print?

David Lisset's DVD's would be the best for general dog work, I refer to the Spaniel training series alot.

'The Versatile Gundog' by Guy Wallace is useful, as is 'Gundog Training - Pointing Dogs' by Kenneth Roebuck, for the bird work.

If I were to train a pointing breed as a true versatile I would start with bird dog training first. The level of control and the rapport you will develop with your dog will make deer dog training a mere formality. If you take the blueprint approach first, you may knock the drive out of the dog enough to never work away from you, and neglect other areas in training needed to make a complete gundog - retrieve, ground treatment etc. which are much harder to remedy with an older dog.

As for American training sources, take them largely with a grain of salt. Any dog that needed 1000 pigeons (which are terrible in comparison to live game and not to be over done in training) to get started is a complete dud in my opinion. I know dogs that have won at championship level in gundog trials an early age that have had a mere handful of birds shot for them.

She whines because she's a GSP!

My brother used a shock collar, all it teaches them is to fear the shock collar, once it's off they do as they please.

I really don't think you need books. Some advice from people here and your own lessons are enough.

Distance from you when hunting comes back to obedience. Teach her to heel firstly. It just comes with repetition and practice that eventually they'll stay the distance they need to be. In thick cover Ellie is at my feet, in open country she pushes out further. She knows if I can't see her she's too far in front.

My belief is that most dogs never end up great because people get sick of the commitment.
I think also an underrated thing that doesn't get talked about is the dog maturing. At about 2 1/2 Ellie was noticeably more serious and calmer when going about her job and now she's what i consider a well rounded hunter at 3 1/2. I have confidence in her work and I haven't thought about taking a lead or collar into the Bush for 18 months.

You need to understand that there's no shortcut or secret in books or videos it just takes time and effort.

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So many puppy owners are busting their guts to get a workmanship out of their puppies ... I do not know how many books I have read on the matter ... throw them out the window ... the only book I have ever found to give the slightest nuance of practicability is Ben O Williams' puppy book ...

Ive just been given a gsp/lab/spaniel about 3 years old. Previous owner had got deer over her. Will go into a forest block tomorrow to see if she still remembers what she should do. Very friendly and full of beans.Just wants to please

I'm unsure if versatile dogs are really versatile. Well they are but I have never seen one that is exceptional in all aspects of hunting
Still yet to see a gwp or gsp stalking in on deer... off the lead pointing bush stalking styles

What ever your main hunting interest is what I would be training first

I quite like what pointer says but he is at the extreame end of gundog enthusiast ( guessing by reading his knowledge) .
So if you want a deer dog first don't let this dog get away on you. You will need a separate stalking command for having it in close in tight bush


David Lisset's DVD's are good

I've been called many things on the Internet, extreme is a new one though!

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Originally Posted by Kaimaicockher

I'm unsure if versatile dogs are really versatile. Well they are but I have never seen one that is exceptional in all aspects of hunting
Still yet to see a gwp or gsp stalking in on deer... off the lead pointing bush stalking styles

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Careful speaking such truths around here :) versatility is a sliding scale. On one end of the spectrum we have the NZ hunter who thinks he has a pretty handy dog if it does deer and ducks. The other end of the scale would be the Germans and their expectations of a true versatile dog.
I can think of two dogs I have seen first hand that would match that criteria, and both were in that hands of people prepared to put far above usual levels of training and time into a dog to prove such versatility.

just fork out and follow the blueprint.
I am using it and my dog is almost ready to hunt properly @ 15 months old(aim to be fully hunting in spring).
Mates 14 month old heading dog bitch was trained by the blueprint & his own way. She would have 15+ deer, pigs and a shit load of goats under her belt already.
Got to put the time and effort in and restrain yourself from taking them before they are ready otherwise may as well give that dog away or keep it as a pet.

The blueprint, while some will like it, is about the lowest common denominator in New Zealand dog training. Far more effective and productive methods are available if you seek the right help.

I am not a dog trainers asshole to be fair.
My last GSP did everything and did it well.
I had to learn over time to trust what he was showing me on deer but birds and other small game were a mere formality for him.

I only trained the basics and he did the rest. He had no specialist breeding behind him. Got him as a present. His sire was a good dog and that's as much as I knew.

They're not dumb. They just need to know what you want from them.
He locked on point with one deer nose to nose. Every other deer I got with him he indicated but never locked on point.
He found shit loads of dead or wounded deer other people lost or asked if I could find for them.
He had his off days but few and far between. Like us they have to be current. Can't go out once a year and expect your dog to perform to their capabilities.

I might have been lucky with him but I reckon if ya get all the basics down pat you will be off to a good start.
Got a new pup now and I doubt I will change too much regarding his development depending on how he goes.






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I think anyone that thinks GSP/GWP are no good on deer are speaking more about themselves than the dog.

Dogs like people are individuals and all have their own idiosyncracies, as I've said before in my experience a fair part of having a good dog is you yourself learning your dog not just vice versa.
In the same way not everyone you meet barracks for the same rugby/footy team, not every dog locks on hard point, indicates the same way or behaves the same way. It's about reading your dog, and besides when I'm in the bush indicating is far more useful than having a dog lock up whenever it hits a scent, though she does when in real close.

I think people getting into dogs misunderstand what they're for often. They're an aid in helping you hunt, but they won't replace and are not designed to replace your skill and ability as a hunter.


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Bavarian Hunter, that is one of the most salient dog related post I believe I have ever read ...

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Originally Posted by Ruff

The blueprint, while some will like it, is about the lowest common denominator in New Zealand dog training. Far more effective and productive methods are available if you seek the right help.

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:D put up or shut up. Where are all the videos yove promised over the years.

Try watching, there's a lot out there. You Tube, Facebook. I put up years ago. Plenty on this forum have seen what I do. Name the time and place that you, the blueprint fella and me should all turn up somewhere and demonstrate together shall we? First with our own dogs, then with someone else's after 30 minutes work.

Can you even see this?

and to give the reason for my claim.... The system is basically a broken down version the promoter learned from his hunting employer who had developed his methodology in conjunction with Paul Hutton. Not having a huge amount of experience, the person was fooled into believing the method worked because he gained control of the dog, but without realising almost all drive is lost. He also spent a couple of years on this and other forums, pumping myself and others for his info before launching himself as "the best dog trainer in NZ" This is fine, sort of, if the only purpose of the dog is deer or goats, but if it has other uses, such as waterfowl then the bp training may well render it close to hopeless.

A dual at dawn. Could be a big day out..

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Originally Posted by headcase

A dual at dawn. Could be a big day out..

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Everyone also has to bring whiskey and weed... make it interesting. :pacman:

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Originally Posted by EeeBees

Bavarian Hunter, that is one of the most salient dog related post I believe I have ever read ...

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If I knew I was going to receive a compliment like that i would have been a little more articulate with that post.
Hopefully the message hits its mark.

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