Thread: First hunting dog

@Luke.S seems to do alright with his GSP and he's younger than me I'm pretty sure.

Also got to ask what you want out of the dog. If Ellie never does anything other than keep me company in the bush I'll be happy. Sure I'd love her to be able to indicate but as long as I have a mate I'll be happy

+1,

So BH you really want a mate and not a hunter? Most here are the other way round, want a hunter that becomes their mate (when it proves itself) Otherwise, gully and onto the next one.

Originally Posted by Wirehunt

So BH you really want a mate and not a hunter? Most here are the other way round, want a hunter that becomes their mate (when it proves itself) Otherwise, gully and onto the next one.

My oath, I've managed to find every deer to this point in my life without a dog and to be honest if you get a dog because you're too incompetent to find deer without one its going to end up rubbish hands down anyway. I want a mate first, hunter second, I've always said if it finds one big stag in its lifetime its paid for itself (Really who wouldnt pay $1000 for a big stag).

I see your point of view, I grew up with an old man that treated dogs as tools and not mates and I did it myself with running dogs which I've used since I was a kid. though if that was still the case I'd have an empty kennel at home where my whippet sits as I dont do it anymore.

But yes, I'd much rather a good mate to have in the bush thats a below par hunter than a good hunter thats a below par mate.

I've never found it too hard to find deer so thats not my problem and though I love the solitude of hunting and time with my own thoughts away from the rest of my life a mate to have that isnt going to whine, bitch and moan and just gets its kicks by being at my side in the bush, listening to my thoughts for the next day around a campfire while getting a scratch and someone to be there to share in the joy of when I do take an animal is all I'm after.

See from what you're saying, you rate dogs lower than people, whereas in my experience many dogs I rate higher than a lot of people I've met and have a lot more time for them. And thats what I want out of a hunting dog whether its a GSP, Vizsla, Weimeraner, GWP or whatever and I don't think thats so wrong.

Originally Posted by Bavarian_Hunter

See from what you're saying, you rate dogs lower than people, whereas in my experience many dogs I rate higher than a lot of people I've met and have a lot more time for them. And thats what I want out of a hunting dog whether its a GSP, Vizsla, Weimeraner, GWP or whatever and I don't think thats so wrong.

No. I rate the dogs when they deserve it. I don't hunt with idiots or useless fucks, two OR four legged. All of the pups I've bred have gone into good hunting homes of people I know, and they are worked as such.

There are so many variables at play in our own personal make up and experience, and a dogs genetic makeup and disposition that its almost impossible to say what suits who best.

My gut instinct and experience actually tells me something different to what Wirehunt is saying.

Its hard enough to breed good dogs from good pure dogs, without throwing in all the variations of crossbreeds. The huntaway-heading dog cross is a good example; most farmers know that the chances of getting progeny that are good all-rounders from this cross are so limited that they simply don’t do it. Mostly they are erratic and sharp natured. There are of course exceptions, but they are hardly worth hoping for. The same in my view about hunting dog crosses. There are some good ones, but the majority end up filling a gully...or in rabbit packs.

An inexperienced person would be far better with a well bred working strain lab, and the chances of a good outcome would be higher, than on average the same person taking on some sort of random crossbred.

No doubt people will quote the exceptions, but its the average outcome that counts.

A question for some of the guys on here who have had multiple dogs. At what point do you decide the dog lacks the blood (or whatever you want to call it) and ought to be put down so you can start over? If I face that decision with my first dog in the coming few years I'd be forever asking "is the dog a cock up or am I just training it wrong?".

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Originally Posted by phillipgr

A question for some of the guys on here who have had multiple dogs. At what point do you decide the dog lacks the blood (or whatever you want to call it) and ought to be put down so you can start over? If I face that decision with my first dog in the coming few years I'd be forever asking "is the dog a cock up or am I just training it wrong?".

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we own a kennel full here, they are all different, have different strengths, temps and weaknesses but they are all still here.
all get as much work and training as we can get into them, some more than others purely on the above differences.
and yet they all do the job they were intended to do.
this advice to shoot the rubbish shouldn't even be in this thread as wirehunt says it has nothing to do with a pigdog or a rabbit mutt.
for a gundog / hunting dog get the cross or purebred that rocks ya boat and put the work in, if ya can't put the work in do the potential pup a favour and let someone else take it instead........ ya always hear the expceptions about how a pup was half trained and seemed to be doing it all at 10 mths old, but the reality is that's not the norm and you seldom get a free lunch no matter wot you pay..... expect to actually do some training and sometimes a lot more.
I hear more positives from guys who's best dog was there first one, and i have no issue selling a pup to a keen young competant hunter after his first pup and is keen as hell to put the time in. 90% of my pup buyers are hunters after a replacement but I enjoy getting the progress reports from the first timers.
you seldom get a complete cock up, a mismatch maybe but most can be trained to a usable standard with a little time and some advise.

Originally Posted by kawhia

we own a kennel full here, they are all different, have different strengths, temps and weaknesses but they are all still here.
all get as much work and training as we can get into them, some more than others purely on the above differences.
and yet they all do the job they were intended to do.
this advice to shoot the rubbish shouldn't even be in this thread as wirehunt says it has nothing to do with a pigdog or a rabbit mutt.
for a gundog / hunting dog get the cross or purebred that rocks ya boat and put the work in, if ya can't put the work in do the potential pup a favour and let someone else take it instead........ ya always hear the expceptions about how a pup was half trained and seemed to be doing it all at 10 mths old, but the reality is that's not the norm and you seldom get a free lunch no matter wot you pay..... expect to actually do some training and sometimes a lot more.
I hear more positives from guys who's best dog was there first one, and i have no issue selling a pup to a keen young competant hunter after his first pup and is keen as hell to put the time in. 90% of my pup buyers are hunters after a replacement but I enjoy getting the progress reports from the first timers.
you seldom get a complete cock up, a mismatch maybe but most can be trained to a usable standard with a little time and some advise.

Good to read of the confidence you have in your dogs. What about a different question then. Lets say the dog is good and it's the trainer's fault, he/she has given it so many bad habits and made a mess of it. Would you consider putting down a good dog that has be "ruined" by a bad trainer? In other terms, is there a point of no return, for an otherwise good dog, where it is either not possible or not practical to make right the mistakes of the trainer? I can't really see this happening with anyone who is a serious hunter and wants the best for their dog, and you might say you would never give a dog to someone who won't at least be an okay handler, but just hypothetically speaking, that is all.

Originally Posted by phillipgr

Good to read of the confidence you have in your dogs. What about a different question then. Lets say the dog is good and it's the trainer's fault, he/she has given it so many bad habits and made a mess of it. Would you consider putting down a good dog that has be "ruined" by a bad trainer? In other terms, is there a point of no return, for an otherwise good dog, where it is either not possible or not practical to make right the mistakes of the trainer? I can't really see this happening with anyone who is a serious hunter and wants the best for their dog, and you might say you would never give a dog to someone who won't at least be an okay handler, but just hypothetically speaking, that is all.

I have seen a couple of complete idiots stuff dogs up, but it is not the norm , most people will have some issues but nothing that bad you would hope, the idiots do learn from this and the second or third may be better.

Issues can be sorted, plenty of help out there, another thing to consider is with the backyard special you will probably get very little after sales advice, with an established kennel you will get that and they know there dogs well too

Another thing, you can buy a trained dog and hunt straight off, you can buy a pup and train yourself, or you could buy a pup then spend the coin and have someone train it for you...
or get a started dog and finish it
You will get the most satisfaction from starting and training your own pup, but there are other options to how you get there

Originally Posted by moonhunt

I have seen a couple of complete idiots stuff dogs up, but it is not the norm , most people will have some issues but nothing that bad you would hope, the idiots do learn from this and the second or third may be better.

Issues can be sorted, plenty of help out there, another thing to consider is with the backyard special you will probably get very little after sales advice, with an established kennel you will get that and they know there dogs well too

Another thing, you can buy a trained dog and hunt straight off, you can buy a pup and train yourself, or you could buy a pup then spend the coin and have someone train it for you...
or get a started dog and finish it
You will get the most satisfaction from starting and training your own pup, but there are other options to how you get there

What would you say the best way to train a pig dog is?!

Originally Posted by Tussock

My labxhuntaway indicates and retrieves and beautifully and has worked ducks and rabbits and deer since she was six months old, without annoying anyone.

Wirehunts points make sense. I am sure he is heavily influenced by the amount of time my girl spent sucking up to him.

I would listen. Its what I did and I could not be happier. Personally I would chose a calm, hyper intelligent dog beginner or not. No substitute for brains. Say what you like about "prey drive" but most of the dogs just look like they have chronic ADHD.

Do you know what happened with the rest of the litter?

shop around and ya could have taken a 0 off and you could have got her for 15 bucks.... would it make any difference ?

We had a lab cross bitch Gypsy she was absolutely amazing we didnt get out onto the deer but she was a awesome duck and rabbit dog, one year she retrieved 2 ducks at once out of a high river. She got poisoned on our property in 2012. In photo she was about 8-9 years old.



We now have our new dog Nitro he is 15 months now he is a Vizsla lab cross, this season will be his first duck shooting, but he has indicated deer the first time we went out with him so we are pretty happy.

Funny thing Tahr, straight lab's have their own gully. The breed is becoming a fucking mess. Ergo outcrossing. Years ago I would have said get a straight lab.

Good question Phil. It comes down have you done enough training that it should know what you want. Is it doing what you expect it should do with the training you've done.