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So I’m in the market for a dog and I’m somewhat taken with short haired pointers.
There is plenty for sale on trade me and Facebook etc but I’m a bit wary of splashing out that kind of money without having a bit of an idea as to potential health problems.
My understanding is that if you get a pup through a kennel they’re tested on various things that those dogs would be prone to.
What are other experiences and thoughts when buying dogs?
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All gsps are mad, it's just a gradient of how mad depends on the breeding.
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Take time to meet the breeder and place they breed, the person is just as important as the dog. Ask for names of people who have bought their dogs past few years and ring them up to check their experience with breeder/dog
MY PERSONAL experience here...
first dog,Xbreed out of paper...think $50 from memory, buttons was a gsp/huntaway...great dog we put her down at about 10 with breast cancer getting naasty.
Misty was gsp/lab lived similar age,no health issues ,put her down when went deaf (had young kids at home at the time and worried she get fright and snap).
willy big black goof ball...add said lab /huntaway....nope he was huntaway golden retriever....spotted the dad as came past house months later,he took 3 years to mature at all...strong as an ox,lovely nature .went to home as pet when we shifted and couldnt get rental with 2 dogs.....he was glueten intolerant and got itches and ear infections galore untill we changed diet...
Nugget...we thought go breeder as wanted cocker spaniel.....uunfortunately breeder had ...ummmm.scruple issues, we didnt do homework. he lived till 11 and was bundle of fun BUT was blind at end because his skin on head was too loose n floppy.needed about inch chopped off to make eyes open properly,lovely dog but cost us thousands in vet visits oer his lifetime.
Meg is gsp/labxlab /beardie SO FAR touch wood we have only had incontinence issues health wise....
so we havent gone pure bred with papers.....mongrel = hybrid vigour OR bundle of issues.... do your homework BEFORE letting wife or kids see puppies...once they are seen/smelt/touched its too late....puppies arent the only ones who give puppy dog eyes and melt out strong will.
In my limited experience I think black lab crossed with a working dog or gundog breed are good. Lab for ease of care working dog for brains.
I have a lab huntaway cross. He's ok. A bit headstrong. Needs regular remainders.
Next dog will be a bitch with some heading dog in it. Hopefully be a bit more biddable.
If you want a pure breed make sure it's out of working strain and not a show dogs. Many breeder will have a clause in the sale agreement that you cant breed from the pup. And papers cost extra on top
You don't need a pure breed to get a good dog ask @Ryan_Songhurst about Bo.
more importantly what do you want to do with dog pet hunting etc..
Had 3 gsp dogs (yea I know I have problems) trade me dogs seem more expensive than good breeding kennels, that offer more protection. I would own another in a heartbeat.
Yeah the wife suggested we go look at some so I thought I’d start doing some homework first! Had a friend get one on trade me and then a year later had to spend a lot on surgery for hip issues only to find out it already had bad arthritis as well. Not something I want to deal with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
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I have heard a lot of good things about crossing with heading dogsQuote:
Originally Posted by Chur Bay
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Hunting mate as well as the family dog really. All rounderQuote:
Originally Posted by northdude
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That’s what I’m thinking re kennels, less likely to have health issues and you have protection if they do. Have all yours been through kennels? Which ones?Quote:
Originally Posted by ONYVA
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I take it you mean gsp?
Look for a breeder who actually breeds "working dogs"
It makes a difference.
Heading dogs are tough bastards and high health. Pedigree dog breeds carry and inbreeding coefficient of around 60% ( this is a mathematical ratio for calculating the closeness of breeding) where no more than 20% is desirable. So what this means is that it is very hard to get away from the genetic faults that a breed has even with culling. Crossbreeding with a fault free breed - (heading dog) fixes it in a single stroke.
Interestingly, Greyhounds are free of genetic faults.
I have always though a GWP would be a great base for a cross with all sorts
Our first dog was purebred lab, lovely useful dog, lived to 15 but got pretty hopeless after 10-11. Our current girl is 3/4 lab, 1/4 GSP (sire was 1/2 lab, 1/2 GSP) I thought she would just be a slightly more motivated labrador. Wow the first year was terrible, absolutely headstrong, wilful, disobedient, destructive, escaping, batsh1t crazy asshole. If it wasn't for the kids she would have been moved on, I had a friend keen to try her on pigs as she is quite big. At 2 she's has improved and coming up to 3 she is a lot better and will no doubt get better with more experience and training. She is massive for what looks like a black labrador, a smaller dog would be a lot nicer to lift over fences etc. She is supposedly gluten intolerant (a common problem with GSP's apparently) but she gets a lot of bones and offcuts so doesn't get too expensive to feed. I wouldn't get anything with GSP in it again but to be fair she is getting better and I reserve the right to change my mind as she matures more.
gluten intolerant...what we did was got local butcher to make us up batch of dog rolls...no bread/wheat flour..just meat and vege with corn flour to stick it together..didnt cost us a heck of a lot compared to his regular rolls and with no fillers,dog needed less per feed.... definitely recommend this to anyone with issues.
Ok I’ll bite... ya buck toothed registered purebred will by default be around 12.5 coe ... that’s a close invercargil matingQuote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
The desired outcome most aim for is below 10 over 10 generations ... way off your actual quote of 60 which would not compute let alone get paperwork.
Going by Mickys road trip with crossbreds your fault free breed fixit don’t work as well, heading dogs go blind and deaf with the best of them... most have a line bred element as well.
Greyhounds,cheetahs and wolves all have high coe ... a lot of the best Gundog breeds do as well with no horror stories.
I was hoping you would chime in bud....
Plenty of huntaways and heading digs are bred plenty close enough.... biggest issue is trial digs vs ‘station bred’/‘working parents’ dogs.
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Ok, so as we move forward in generations the coefficient decreases but the issue remains that on average first generations of most pedigree breeds were 60% inbred. With such a close base (low diversity) it makes it very difficult IMO to get rid of faults without getting rid of the entire strain. Dogs as diverse as Pugs, Dachshunds, Saint Bernards and Great danes as examples all come from the same original wild dogs. It is close inbreeding of certain individuals that has produced these divergent shapes and sizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by kawhia
What this means is that in some breeds it is virtually impossible to find an individual free of a major fault. Crossing to an unrelated breed doesnt make the fault disappear from the genes, but it masks it for that generation which will be good sound utility dogs
@7x64 really knows about this stuff
2 dogs from kennels Dawnflight and Sutherlands then a home bred one without papers. As far as i am aware all GSPs have leg, arthritis type problems as they age.Quote:
Originally Posted by HOO
disclaimer: im no expert.........
i am up to dog number 4and will probably get number 5 later this year .....
#1 was a huntaway/retriever ....all kinds of intelligent and easily trained she responded to hand signals and subtle gestures got cancer made it to 10 years
#2 ridgeback purebred , he was the runt of the litter and we got him for free as he couldnt be sold due to his oesophegas not being fully developed? (he would have been put down if we didnt take him) the wife put in the effort and e were told by a few vets to put him down he wont make 3 months... anyhoo he grew tall and lean how a ridgey should be not bulky like some you see after dog #1 died he kinda lost interest in stuff and they are couch potatoes anyway his back and hind quarter muscles wasted away to the point wher he didnt have the strength to lift himself up off the floor he made it to 11
#3 (and still current ) whippet/heading dog (i think) cross pound pup no health issues as yet , had to have her dew claws removed as the were growing out at 90 dgrees and she was always chewing on them...... shes a small dog 6yrs and would expect her to be active well past 12 harder to train as she isnt food driven
#4 lab/waimerana .... we inherited this one when she was already 6 yrs she came with all sorts of issues , immune deficiency alergies skin problems anxiety i could go on we knew all this when we got her she was good natured but highly stressed (we took her from a high stress environment into a calm place where she always had companionship , dog or human)but was happy and had a good laid back retirement eventually her mind started to go she made it to 11 .
guess the point is (if there is one ) is that any dog can have issues and all dogs are susceptible to genetic anomolies just like people and i think our big dogs have done well to make it to 10/11 yrs they had good lives with us.
and again just my opinon based on the dogs ive had and i am no expert...
If you want a dog and want to steer wife/partner/missus/kids the right way breedwise this has worked for me.
Decide on breed.
Then take them look at some pups.
They are suckers for any pup and you then have the breed sorted.
Second piece of advice have manners on them at home but let them be the pet/friend with the family.
I didn't do too much with dogs at home but when across the creek or out hunting my rules.
Keeps everybody happy.
Dogs work it out.
I had a weimaraner and I reckon them, gsps etc are just different colour versions of the same.
Did like the weimaraner she lived to 18.
Have had both purebred kennel types and home bred either can do what you want.
You have to like the dog and go from there.
Had one springer from Robert Dollimores wife and he was a beauty and cocker I didnt get on with.
Another springer dopiest thing I have ever had and gave to a mate he shot over her and she died of old age.
Shite 18 is a bloody good run out of a big dog.
All my dogs have been pets so can't really add anything to the working/hunting dog story.
However, all dogs are subject to the variations of different health outcomes we are. Even a dog from a kennel who have hip scored parents and done all the scans will not guarantee a disease free dog. For genetic conditions obviously a kennel breeding to reduce the incidences of it will give you a better chance of having a pup without those problems.
So many variables and every breed has their own problems and susceptibilities.
Good luck with your choice
So you are saying first cross dogs are free of any health issuesQuote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
I have an 18wk old Vizsla pup that I got at 9weeks - pure bred, papered from a well regarded breeder with all health tests for parents etc - cost less than unpapered backyard pups on trademe and comes with life long support from the breeder. Was a long wait to get a pup though
This thread sums up NZ hunting dog culture - the guy is asking where the better GSP's come from, and everyone's recommending him a farm dog cross without knowing the intended usage.
My advice is pick the breeder. Warwick Rapley in Kiokio and Gale Blankley in Auckland spring to mind for GSPs. Visit both and make your own mind up.
and your post @Pointer sums up internet mentality as of late where folks get upset on another's behalf.NZ hunting dog culture my arse....... WHO HAS RECOMENDED a farm dog cross????
I was giving history of WHAT I HAVE OWNED....health issues etc
others have chimed in with same...
crossbreeding VS purebred has been...debated...but you can crossbreed two purebreeds of diferent types too.....
for all we/you know he wants dog to lie on lounge floor to keep his feet warm.
I’m not asking where the best gsps come from.
I’m asking what other people’s opinions and experiences are when buying privately and through kennels so I can get more of an idea about what I should do.
I think I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s safer buying from a proper breeder but the wait lists are pretty long if indeed the breeders ever get back to you.
I’ve really appreciated all the responses.
Wether they are representative of no hunting dog culture or not I have no idea but a lot of people gave me some sound advice. Which is why I posted here
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Noones upset micky duck. What made you feel that comment was aimed at you?
A good dogman told me once "a truly great dog can come from anywhere. Consistently good dogs come from good breeding programs"
You an fluke that once in a lifetime dog from the SPCA, or you can go to a breeder who is trying to reproduce the exact type of dog you are looking for. Pretty simple
didnt feel it was aimed at me at all.... reread what you posted...... reread what I posted.....
yes breeders who HAVE HEART IN RIGHT PLACE do try to achieve good outcome,unfortunately there are far too many puppy farms and puppy farmers out there....
only have myself to blame but we got stung...had wondeful dog who went blind far too young so couldnt do what his heart screamed at him to do.... when I told breeder about the health issues he offered me another from different litter EXACT SAME PARENTS....... that spoke volumes to me about backyard puppy farmers.agree 100% if you go to reputable breeder and get dog with papers you are setting yourself up with good chance of successfully getting what you are after.... but we both know even then things can be not quite as desired....some dogs just dont hunt.....some have health issues....some just dont match owner personality wise.
where ever you get pup from one thing is a certainty...you will have that bundle of love for a decade or more so better make sure you know what you want before going and looking,once you see n smell pup....and definately if wife n kids do...one will be going home with you.
Know of any breeders in the South Island?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
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Sorry HOO, I don't. Doesn't mean they're not out there though. I recommended the two above as a starting point for you, both are quite different kennels, with different genetics and breeding objectives, but you might find one suits you better than the other. Remember you'll be feeding this dog for 15 years, it pays to start with the best-bred pup possible for your needs. Good luck