Thread: Over excited Cocker

Originally Posted by stagstalker

Maturity wont fix the behavior, only training. The first rule for me is control, always have control. If you don't have control off lead then the dog doesn't come off the lead in a setting where you cant regain control. I would say you have a fair bit of consistent training ahead of you if you want control off the lead.

My younger lab is full on with high drive. I've instilled control training in him consistently for his full four years of life thus far and I still have to be on my game and on top of him every time we hunt to maintain control because he is so keen. Control can be broken purely into two commands I think. Sit and recall. Sit means put your bum down and don't bloody move until you are released. Recall is self explanatory. With both of those commands locked you can manage a ton of situations. If they are not locked then dog needs to be physically controlled, IE on a lead or line. Control can get more detailed for day to day life such as manners with eating, not jumping in/out of the truck or kennel until I say so etc etc but that stuff is nitty gritty and over to you.. I hate a dog barreling through a door or out the back of my ute without permission and some manners... but thats just me.

This isnt really the place to learn how to train these things IMO as you get multiple opinions and methods and there's not enough depth from forum comments to really provide a valuable plan from start state to end state. Dog training is a journey of learning and how much time and effort you are willing to give. I would seek some training help or sign up to something like a Paul Michaels Dog Training Vimeo Video Series to give you something tangible to start with.

Great post

Man, a fair bit to wade through there.
Thanks guys for your input.

The dog most definitely is not gun shy, she loves it.
I’ve definitely got work to do with her sit. She’ll sit ok in general, and so long as I’m paying attention she’ll stay seated but once I’m distracted she’s off. I definitely can’t keep her in sit while around guns, not for more than a few seconds. I have to hold her.

I’ll take on what’s been suggested and let y’all know how it’s proceeding.
Cheers

Cool to read that. You know what the problem is.you have keen to be around guns, AWESOME,you will get a rock solid sit,and stay sitting until moved sorted...it can be as easy or hard as you make it. I'm oh so tempted to use a different,nonsical command for it so others don't keep mucking it up for me,I endure with thought the dog knows when I give the command there is zero wiggle room. Being consistent is key.if I have any issues with those rules written in stone and handed to Moses,it's that number one wasn't..thou shall always be consistent in commands.

Obviously this is going to be a long process but she is definitely improving.
I started by simply trying to improve her sit as suggested. The #2 thing she gets excited over is food so I’ve really concentrated on her sitting beside her bowl without eating until I’ve decided she can eat. This has been extended to sitting before entering a door etc. (I know this is something I should have been more particular about as a pup)
She is still running at the shot but she’s sitting until the shot.
I tried to keep her in the lead while shooting but she just completely loses her shit.
I’m happy if she sits quietly while I’m setting up and waiting for the shot. Still needs work but substantial better than before.
Of course the real test will be on the hill.

just remember that real key thing dogs respond to hand signals way way better than voice commands and keep those voice commands to 3-4 stay or sit .-- come ,-- leave it , and much later - where is it - to send her out on a blood trail

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

just remember that real key thing dogs respond to hand signals way way better than voice commands and keep those voice commands to 3-4 stay or sit .-- come ,-- leave it , and much later - where is it - to send her out on a blood trail

I’ve always used my finger and hand with voice so that wasn’t a problem.
She’s learning to trust that I know which direction her toys are, so to a degree I can send her in a direction or at least start her in that direction lol

A bit of a novice here, but I have learned a lot from training my dogs for fun and them getting a lot better with time. They are both adopted, so came with a lot of bad habits. One is now ready for her first hunt (where at first I didn't think I'd ever get her to this stage) on the deer indicating front and the younger one is showing a lot of promise, but still a work in progress.

For the solid sit, it doesn't always have to be a huge start, you can start with something small that is your foundation and can be practiced a lot for small amounts of time, but regularly. I.e. Sit in the lounge or yard and then throwing toys or treats past them and they have to keep the sit. Extending your distance helps a lot and then also having someone that can distract is a good option later on.

For obedience training I find your voice tone a HUGE help with the dogs, so a medium warning tone when they are doing something right but you can see the cogs of mischief turning can help a lot to keep them in place. One of the trainers i followed uses the the word good for both good or bad, but the tone is what helps the dog understand whether it's actually good or bad rather than the word and you can always use a deepish tone as a warning.

You can probably progress above to having her calm and in a sit and then taking the gun in and out and slowly starting her getting used to it before going further. Getting the start right can be huge for how it goes further.

for a solid sit and stay use a square of plywood on lawn the dog will relate to the square of plywood but will struggle with just a random patch on a lawn always start with something positive to sit on even a piece of towel will do just something the dog can relate to

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

for a solid sit and stay use a square of plywood on lawn the dog will relate to the square of plywood but will struggle with just a random patch on a lawn always start with something positive to sit on even a piece of towel will do just something the dog can relate to

Great idea, I’ve started using my clothing, a jacket at the moment. She’s taken to that really easily. So if I drill that into her I can lay a jacket exactly where I want her rather than her choosing where she sits. So obvious and just so sensible.
Thankyou all for the help.

Strange as it sounds...and it took me awhile to appreciate/ understand this. By giving the dog a 'place to be' it actually takes pressure off the dog,helps it relax... The kennel or the mat by fire where dog is supposed to be,becomes a "safe place" .... Dog knows if it's there,it's ok to be relaxed. We used to have a wooden pallet with carpet tacked on it for dogs at back door,a wee couch inside.if dog went there the kids learnt,were taught to leave them alone... Your jacket will work same way,dog doesn't have to think about where you want them...on the jacket is correct.... Hope that makes sense to you... Typing it out reinforced it in my mind.

I taught my ridgeback to blood trail on command - I used a surfcasting rod - got out on our big back lawn and would cast the meat skin lure way out - then reel in from another ditection - walk him on lead to start point let him off and the command " where is it" - just picked it up so fast - found a few deer with him I am sure without the dog likely would not have cant beat that nose

Yep that's what we do at work. Once the dog is sitting on the mat it knows it's doing a job ( even sitting on a mat can be a job )
This fella is super hyper energy but he calms right down when on the mat

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Strange as it sounds...and it took me awhile to appreciate/ understand this. By giving the dog a 'place to be' it actually takes pressure off the dog,helps it relax... The kennel or the mat by fire where dog is supposed to be,becomes a "safe place" .... Dog knows if it's there,it's ok to be relaxed. We used to have a wooden pallet with carpet tacked on it for dogs at back door,a wee couch inside.if dog went there the kids learnt,were taught to leave them alone... Your jacket will work same way,dog doesn't have to think about where you want them...on the jacket is correct.... Hope that makes sense to you... Typing it out reinforced it in my mind.

Shelby tracked her first deer this morning. It was only about 50yds but I put her in the blood and she trailed it to the deer.
Got some work to do getting her let me know she’s found it though lol.
When I want some vocalising I get nothing.
She still gets a bit excited prior to the shot and whines a bit but she knows she’s not supposed to. You can see she’s fighting her nature lol

Let her jump on it and have a chew/ pull out hair.....deer = fun and the chew is release.... If your dog is leading into carcass...they don't need to bark to tell you they have found it,your two steps behind them...or at worst,in open country within twenty,thirty yards eye balling them. If they stop casting.go immediately to them.if they come back to you,send again.

I would be extremely cautious about employing the dog to go beyond visual/control distance to find the animal and then report found by barking. I've seen too many instances where people use their dogs like this and next minute the dog has bumped or is chasing a wounded deer, only for it to never be found again, leaving you with no idea what's happened and spending the next hour trying to get your dog back. Barking isn't necessary in a deer dog IMO, unless you are a culler employing well trained dogs bailing goats etc.

I even saw an example where a hind was shot, most likely fatal. Dog got sent off to find it, next minute the dog is chasing a deer and the owner is trying to track them both down. What has likely happened is the dog tracked in on the dead hind, bumped into the fully mobile yearling that is hanging around dead mum, and subsequently chased the yearling. Once the owner gets the dog back, there's no hope in putting the dog back on the trail to find the hind because it's been spoilt by chasing the yearling.

An example of keep your dog close enough that you are under control and walk in on the animal together, IMO.